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fpolyakov81
04-27-2002, 08:40 AM
Dear List members,

I have posted a question a week ago, so now I am posting my original
message and the answers - thanks a lot to people who replied.

I have not yet worked out all the suggestions (they are promising), so if
anybody is interested to know the results you are wellcome to contact me
later.

Best regards,
Felix.
__________________________________________________ ______________

Original posting:

Dear List members,

I am a PHD student in the department of applied mathematics.
My research is related to the analysis of hand movements in primates.

I would appreciate any advice with respect to the measurments of joints in
the upper limb of a rhesus monkey. The monkey is small and therefore
standart devices for measurments in humans are problematic. The one we
need should be smaller and lighter.

We are interested separately in measurments during the movements in a
horizontal plane, approximately shoulder level, and in the measurments
which will enable us to measure accurately joint movement in multiple
planes. We are looking for more than one size of sensors for measuring the
joints of Wrist, Forearm, Elbow and finger.

If you are familiar about the companies which might produce relevant
goniometers, or you might give any advice, please, let me know.

I will later send the answers to the list for common use.

Thanks for your attention,
__________________________________________________ ____________________

Answers:

Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:03:42 -0300
From: Wagner de Godoy
To: Felix Polyakov
Subject: Re: [BIOMCH-L] Joint measurments in monkey upper limb


Dear Mr. Polyakov,

perhaps you can use a system of movement capture with passive markers.
try:
http://www.vicon.com/main/applications/animal_motion.html

Perhaps exist some laboratory with this technology in Israel (seek in the
orthopedics and
rehabilitation departments).

Good luck in your research.

Wagner de Godoy
Gait Laboratory
mailto:labmarcha@aacd.org.br
mailto:wagner.godoy@bol.com.br
AACD - Associação de Assistência à Criança Deficiente
Disabled Children Care Association
Brazil
http://www.aacd.org.br

__________________________________________________ ____________________

Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:50:51 -0700
From: Gary Christopher
To: Felix Polyakov
Subject: Re: [BIOMCH-L] Joint measurments in monkey upper limb


Felix,

You might try contacting NASA - they did/funded a lot of rhesus monkey
research over the last 40 years.

Gary Christopher
Oregon State University

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:32:44 -0400
From: Robert Eckhardt
To: Felix Polyakov
Cc: eyl@psu.edu
Subject: Re: [BIOMCH-L] Joint measurments in monkey upper limb

Dear Felix,

I currently hold an appointment in the Kinesiology Department at Penn
State, where I draw upon an extensive background and research record
in the functional and evolutionary biology of Primates (e.g. see my
book, HUMAN PALEOBIOLOGY, Cambridge, 2000).

I'm writing to bring to your attention something that you probably
know, but if not might save you a lot of grief (wasted time & effort,
potentially inapplicable results, etc.).

The principal point is that the shoulder joints of rhesus monkeys
(and broadly but with some complications, of Cercopithecoids in
general) are structured rather differently from those of Hominoid
Primates (apes and humans). This of course relates to the
differences in posture and locomotion, the monkeys being largely
quadrupedal, apes & humans not. So, if you are thinking of using
rhesus as "models" for human shoulder structure and function, you
will be wandering into a confusing wilderness. However, if you are
doing a "comparison and contrast" approach, that's a different thing.

If I might ask, what is your objective?

Shalom.
Bob Eckhardt
Professor of Developmental Genetics & Evolutionary Morphology

__________________________________________________ ________________

Subject: RE: [BIOMCH-L] Joint measurments in monkey upper limb
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:03:51 -0500
From: "An, Kai-Nan Ph.D"
To: "'Felix Polyakov'"
CC: "'Mary.Marzke@asu.edu'"



Please contact Professor Mary Mart at Arizona State University
at
Mary.Marzke@asu.edu

She is an expert and has great experience in such area.

Peace and Joy
Kai-Nan An, Ph.D.
Professor and Director
Biomechanics Laboratory
Mayo Clinic
Phone 507-538-1717; Fax 507-284-5392

__________________________________________________ ______________

Subject: RE: [BIOMCH-L] Joint measurments in monkey upper limb
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:22:54 -0000
From: baldur@kine.is (Baldur Thorgilsson)
To: "Felix Polyakov"
CC: Carola A?albjornsson



Dear Felix Polyakov.
We produce the KineView 2D movement analysis system that will allow you to
measure any angle in a plane. This is done by using a video camera and the
KineView software running on a PC computer.
In KineView you have goniometer tool, a software imitation of a real
goniometer. You can interact with the goniometer (shift, rotate, adjust
the
levers) through mouse or arrow-keys and read the values right from the
screen. You can have several goniometers on screen at the same time and
thus
compare angles. You can also adjust (and auto track) the goinometer for
each
frame and then plot the angle as function of time (and see derived values
like velocity and acceleration). The data is easily exported to other
applications via the clipboard.

With our system you do not have to put any object on the monkey and thus
you
will not disturb his attention or motion.

The system is not size-dependent as you just focus closer with the camera
for smaller joints.

Many other features comes with the KineView system not mentioned here.
Please look at our web page and please don't hesitate to contact us for
any
further information like our demo of KineView.

Best regards,
Baldur

__________________________________________________ ______________

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:09:27 -0600
From: "Scheirman, Gary"
To: felix@WISDOM.WEIZMANN.AC.IL
Subject: regarding [BIOMCH-L] Joint measurements in monkey upper limb
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2 310 KB Application
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Dear Felix,

I saw your notice about wanting to measure joint angles and wanted to make
sure you were familiar with the system manufactured by our company, Peak
Performance Technologies, Inc. We supply a system that measures angles by
tracking contrasting points on the body via video in either 2-D or 3-D.
All
you would need to put on the animals are paint or colored marks that
contrast with the animals' hair. The system can be configured to compute
the angle between three points to measure flexion/extension of the elbow,
or
the segment angle between two points and a reference axis (e.g. shoulder).
By placing three points on each segment, one can compute the entire six
degree-of-freedom motions, including flexion/extension,
abduction/adduction
and ext/internal rotation.

I have attached a PDF file that gives an overview of our system, but you
may
want to refer to our website, http://www.peakperform.com for more
information. We also have detailed description sheets that I can send
you,
too. Just let me know if you are interested.

regards,

Gary Scheirman, PhD
Vice President
Peak Performance Technologies, Inc.
gscheirman@peakperform.com


__________________________________________________ _____________________


__________________________________________________ ______
Sincerely yours,

Felix Polyakov
PHD Student

The Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science,
The Weizmann Institute of Science,
Rehovot 76100, Israel


tel. (972) 8-934 3733 (w)
8-934 3310 (h)
cellular 055-954502

fax (972) 8-934 2945
8-934 4122

e-mail: felix@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il

http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~felix

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