PDA

View Full Version : Summary: "Searching for a temporary skin adhesive for motionanalysis applications"



tmcguirk80
08-13-2006, 11:11 PM
To All,

Thank you to all for your responses and creative suggestions. I have attached a summary of answers to my question:

"Search for a temporary skin adhesive for motion analysis applications."

I have found there are many different methods being used to attach markers directly to the skin. These methods are dependent on the marker size, subject limb, time length of data collection, and task being performed by the subject (dynamics of the action and rigor; "will the subject sweat?").

With kind regards,
Theresa McGuirk

*************************************
Original Question:

>>> Theresa Mcguirk 8/7/2006 2:46 PM >>>
I am searching for a temporary liquid adhesive which can be safely
applied to human skin. We would like to use the glue to attach small
Vicon reflective markers of the hemisphere style to finger digits for
motion analysis data collection applications.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions!

Theresa McGuirk, MS
Biomedical Engineer
Human Motor Performance Laboratory
University of Florida
*************************************


*************************************
Responses:
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi,

Having a Vicon system at my disposal in my master's program, I have quite a
lot of experience with exactly what you are talking about, and I hope my
input can be of some use. This will depend on how dynamic your movement is,
but I'll tell you what I did to look at full-speed American football
kicking. First, we started with spirit gum, a liquid adhesive used in
theater to apply fake beards, etc. That was applied to the markers
themselves and used in combination with the spray adhesive athletic trainers
use to make tape stick better (there are several brands I'm sure). We also
used duct tape and pre-wrap to hold the markers down, but we were using the
kind of markers that had the little plastic base at the bottom, so that
might not help you. Finger movement shouldn't be too dynamic though, so
hopefully those liquid adhesives will be all you need. They will be a
little sticky afterward, but cold cream usually takes it right off.

Tiffany Zachry
Institute of Human Performance
University of Hong Kong
Rm 115, 1/F, Patrick Manson Building
7 Sassoon Road, Hong Kong
Office: (852) 2589 0585
Email: tzachry@hkusua.hku.hk
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi,
As a vison user, we always used double sided sticky tape as i'm not sure a liquid will be strong enough to support the weight of the markers !
Hope this helps,

Asseman Francois
Research Associate
Imperial college London, DEpartment of clinical neuroscience
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hey Theresa,Cyanoacrylate ("Superglue") works REALLY well, but you'd
need to have a solvent around to get it of when you're done. At a pinch,
more superglue acts as a solvent, but your subjects probably wouldn't be
that happy about the residue sticking to them for a day or two. It's
quite safe to use (in my experience) as it gets used to hold wounds
together, and rarely seems to get an allergic reaction.
Rod Whiteley
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Theresa,
You could try the glue used to attach false eyelashes. It should be easily
available at any drugstore and is easily removed from skin.
Good luck!
Greg
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Dear Theresa,
I am working on the hand and for my finger motion analysis data
collection I am using double-sided stiky band used to fixe peruke (it is
dermatologically tested and it is very good).
Adriana
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Theresa, we have used a shin tuffner by Mueller Products. This is
the type of tuffner used to help keep adhesive tape on to the skin of
athletes but we found it very useful when applying marker and marker
boxes during activities when the people were sweating a lot and the
markers tended to fall off. good luck with your studies.

Dr. Kenneth Monaghan
School of Physiotherapy & Performance Science
UCD Health Sciences Centre
University College Dublin
Belfield
Dublin 4
Tel: 01-7166526
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Teresa,
Ostomy glue is an option and its readily available. I've used it with much
success in placing markers on the lower limb in static and low frequency
dynamic applications.
Lori
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
I'd try spirit gum.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=spirit%20gum&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&client=fi
refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wf

Brian Schulz, Ph.D.
Program Specialist
VISN 8 Patient Safety Research Center (118M) James A. Haley Veterans'
Hospital
11605 North Nebraska Ave.
Tampa, FL 33612-5738
Phone: (813) 558-3944
Fax: (813) 558-3990
www.patientsafetycenter.com
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Teresa,
The adhesive used with colostomy bags works well, but may require a special solution to remove the residual adhesive.
John
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi,
Try Opsite (made by Smith and Nephew UK) plastic spray. This is ideal for skin
preperation prior to marker attachment.
Regards,

John Bickerstaffe
Podiatrist
Gait Analysis Lab
Tameside and Glossop PCT
UK
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Theresa, You might try wig glue (i.e., what people who where wigs
use to keep it in place). It is temporary and usually comes with a
remover to help get the stuff off your skin after you're done. I've
tried it in rats with some success, but I doubt human subjects will
try to bite their markers off and eat them nearly as much. ;)

cheers,

Young-Hui Chang
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
I don't know about glue, but the range of 3M medical adhesive double sided
tape is effective - it is widely available in variuos grades (usually sold for
fixing toupees).

Ian

Dr Ian Thomas, Casmik Ltd, 10 Mandinam Park, Sketty, Swansea, UK SA2 7AW
Tel: 07702885642, Fax: 08701316407 Email: Casmikltd@aol.com Skype: Casmikltd
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Dear Theresa:
We use electrode interfaces (double-sided sticky pads) to adhere our EMG
electrodes on to the surface of the skin. If you would like to try them,
I can send some samples out to you.
Devi

Devi Bheemappa
Manager, Sales and Marketing
Delsys Inc.
617 236 0599 xt.31 - (P)
617 236 0549 - (F)
devi@delsys.com
www.delsys.com

*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Theresa,
My company has developed a dry electrode with custom adhesive. The custom
adhesive is clear and extremely flexible. By coincidence one of our
academic partners discovered that the tape is a prefect solution for motion
analysis ( See Text Box) I have also taken the liberty of attaching a white
paper that includes some pictures of our tape. Orbital Research is a high
tech R&D company. Having said that, I would be able to provide you with
some adhesive sample for you to try in exchange for feedback/data. Academic
partnerships are extremely valuable to use. Afterwards, the tape designs
are available for nominal charge.

Best,
Aaron Rood
Senior Research Scientist
Orbital Research Inc
Cleveland ,Ohio
216-649-0399
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Dear Theresa,
Have you considered toupée tape? It's double-sided and very strong. We
generally use it for 10mm-diameter markers that have a base, and it works
very well, but I understand you are probably using smaller markers without a
base.
Peter Sandrian
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Spirit gum is the adhesive that makeup artist use for applying fake
beards, mustaches, etc..

I purchases some a couple of years ago at a costume store and was
impressed with how well it worked for costume purposes. There is also a
Spirit Gum remover that you may want to purchase as well. These item
are probably available on the net.
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Theresa-
Try eyelash glue (that you would use to attach fake eyelashes). It
works relatively well.

April J Chambers, MS
Laboratory Manager and Research Coordinator
Human Movement and Balance Laboratory
B67 Benedum Hall
University of Pittsburgh
412-624-9898
chambers@engr.pitt.edu
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Theresa,
I use "tuff skin" spray to help hold markers on baseball pitchers
and tennis players at teh Florida Gym.
Jeff Wight
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
At the motion lab I used to manage we used tupae tape. It
is a double sticky tape, hypo alergenic, held well, and
left litte or no sticky residue on the subject. I believe
we were purchasing from a company called Mr. C Products,
but it's been a few years. I do know that I found them by
contacting 3m and asking for a retialer of their
hypo-alergenic tupae tape.
jason wening
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Theresa,
I am currently working on a couple of studies that uses 4.5mm markers. The
adhesive that I have been using to attach the markers is made by Gordon
Laboratories and is called STIK IT. The glue works fairly well but begins
to fail as the duration increases. It all depends on how long you need to
keep the markers on.

Here is a supplier:
www.medco-athletics.com
the product number is #96560.
It is a bit pricey, but there is a chance that I could send a couple of
tubes to you before you make an order to determine if it would suit your
application.

Cheers,
Jason A Schoen
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Theresa,
I don't know if Steve uses this approach or not, but we have found
that toupee tape is a terrific adhesive for reflective markers.
It has a lot of attributes: a) it sticks effectively even in the
presence of perspiration, b) it can be cut to fit irregular shapes
and spaces, and c) it is hypoallergenic, so one need not worry about
whether it is approved for human use. I learned this from the people
at the Spaulding Rehab Hospital lab and we have used it since for all
manner of attachment - markers, goniometers, emg electrodes, etc.

Best of luck,
Carolynn Patten, Ph.D., PT
Research Scientist
Rehabilitation R&D Center/153
VA Palo Alto HCS
and
Clinical Associate Professor
Dept. of Orthopaedic Surgery
Stanford University School of Medicine
650.493.5000 x63593
fax: 650.493.4919
e-mail: patten@stanford.edu
http://guide.stanford.edu/People/patten/patten.html
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Theresa,
We do similar experiments applying small markers to the digits. We just
use an Elmer's washable glue pen. I know it's not classy, but it does
the trick ;) Good luck!
Jamie
________________________
Jamie R. Lukos
Ph.D. Candidate
Neural Control of Movement Laboratory
Department of Kinesiology
Arizona State University
http://www.public.asu.edu/~jlukos
http://www.asu.edu/clas/kines/NCMlab/
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Theresa
Try "New Skin Liquid Bandage." It's sold in drug stores to hold cuts
together.
Cheers
Doug Stewart
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Theresa,
I had a tough time with this one in runners, bc of sweat! The best I found was EtOH cleaning, Tuff Skin spray adhesive, then double sided tape. I hope this helps.
Evie
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
This may be an odd suggestion, but I recommend Superglue (cyanoacrylate)
adhesive. It's actually designed to adhere to human skin, as you may have
discovered accidentally on your own. And I think it comes off relatively
easily with nail polish remover and Q-tips. I use incredibly tiny amounts
of cyanoacrylate glue to attach 1mm white beads to the skin of small
quadrupedal mammals for my own locomotor biomechanics experiments.

If you use Superglue, I recommend slightly wetting the markers (with a damp
sponge, perhaps) to make the glue bond faster.

Andy Lammers
Cleveland State University
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Theresa,
At Nike we use Hollister Medical Adhesive. It's expensive, but once it
is stuck to the skin it won't budge. They have a special spray and wipe
that will remove the adhesive once you are done.
To apply the marker, spray or apply a thin coating on the marker and let
dry for about 15 seconds before applying. You can test it before
applying it to the skin by touching it with a tiny part of your
fingertip. If it is pretty tacky, apply to the subject and hold firmly
in place for another 15 seconds or so. Then you are ready to collect.
Here is a link that has some pictures of the containers:
http://www.brucemedical.com/holmedadandr.html
Good Luck,
Allison

Allison Medellin, MS
Biomechanist
NIKE Sport Research Laboratory
(503) 532-4827
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Dear Theresa,
We always use superglue (cyanoacrylate)! It is a little uncomfortable,
but really stays on!
Anthony

Anthony M J Bull, Reader in Musculoskeletal Mechanics
Department of Bioengineering, Imperial College London
London SW7 2AZ (map item #29, level1:
http://www.imperial.ac.uk/images/mappdfs/sk-map.pdf)
Tel: +44 20 7594 5186
http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/a.bull
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Theresa,
I left a message earlier with some options for you.
Eye lash Glue, Tuff Skin, Double sided tape, spirit gum, etc. are all
options that are used.
Best Regards,

Mike Kocourek
Business Development Manager
Vicon
9 Spectrum Pointe Drive
Lake Forest, CA 92630
P (949) 540-0743
F (949) 472-9136
www.vicon.com
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Theresa,
I have used an adhesive product like you asked about in my lab.If you go
to a physical therapy supply store there is a product that is used to
adhere senior's clothing and bandages. It comes in a liquid roller
bottle ($10)and is water soluble. I think it is called Stay put. It can
be used alone or in conjunction with biopotential adhesive collars that
are bought with Sensormedics in California. I have used it for high
speed throwing movements.
Al Finch
Biomechanics Lab
Indiana State University
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------
Hello Theresa,
We've used toupee tape to hold different items to skin. You can get
it locally in wig shops or look online for sources.
Carolyn Sommerich

Carolyn M. Sommerich, PhD
Associate Professor
The Ohio State University
Dept. of Ind, Weld, & Sys. Eng
210 Baker Systems
1971 Neil Ave.
Columbus, OH 43210
office phone: 614-292-9965
research lab phone: 614-247-6806
fax: 614-292-7852
Office: 276 Baker Systems
http://www-iwse.eng.ohio-state.edu/ISEFaculty/sommerich
*-----------------------------------------------------

*-----------------------------------------------------