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Below is a summary of responses to my quiery about electrogoniometer
suppliers. Thanks to all respondents.
Dear Colleagues,
For an on-site occupational epidemiology study, we are looking for a
reliable supplier of flexible electrogoniometers (Penny and Giles or other)
and a portable data logger (4 to 6 channel) with sufficient memory to
collect at 60-120 Hz for at least one hour minimum. A data logger with
exchangeable memory cards would be optimal. Several manufacturers seem to be
out of business or are unresponsive to our inquiries.
Thank you,
Shaw
Shaw Bronner
Soar Research at Long Island University
122 Ashland Place #1A
Brooklyn, NY 11201
718-246-6377
fax 718-246-6383
email: sbronner@liu.edu
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Try Biomedical Monitoring at the address below. I believe they have a new
eight channel model with a 64 MB multimedia card for storage.
Tim
http://www.biomedical-monitoring.com/
Timothy R. Derrick, PhD
Iowa State University
Health and Human Performance
249 Forker Building
Ames, IA 50011
phone: (515) 294-8438
fax: (515) 294-8740
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
The goniometers and data
logger you are looking for are manufactured by Biometrics Ltd. in the UK.
Give them a call at 800-543-6698. Ask for Peter Seddon and tell him I told
you to call. They also have a web site www.biometricsltd.com
Regards,
Raymond McKenna, PT, PhD.
Stony Brook University
631-444-6169
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Shaw,
I am a grad student at McGill University in Canada. We
use a system produced by Mega Electronics (Kupopio,
Finland) model: Muscle Tester ME3000p8f. Its
distributor is Biomation, in Ontario. It is a portable
data logger and uses memory cards. The data is
downloadable into a computer. A program for this comes
with the system. Our model allows for up to 8 channels
(4 gonios). It was orginally designed for EMG data
collection, but can be arranged for gonio collection.
At 100hz, you can collect for about 5.5 hours. The
sampling rate can be set up to 10 000 hz. We actually
use this for simultaneous EMG and gonio data
collection. Works great AFTER you succesfully
configure the system with a computer. We had problems
with installing the system for many months. But, it
works great now. I estimate that there is a failure in
data collection every 1/20 attempts.
Best of luck,
Ryan
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dear Shaw,
We have worked quite a lot with equipment of Biovision. A German Company
which I would always recommend when it comes to problems you've
described. We did several ergonimics studies using their equipment when
I worked in Cologne Germany.
Try http://www.biovision-online.com/biovision_en.htm
The webpage does not contain their brand new solutions yet, but they
will easily allow for data capture over the time periods you've
mentioned.
Good luck,
Uwe
Uwe Kersting, PhD
Lecturer in Biomechanics
Sports and Exercise Science
University of Auckland
Phone: 09 373 7599 extn 6859
Fax: 09 373 7043
Email: u.kersting@auckland.ac.nz
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Shaw,
We have used the 4 channel data loggers from Biomedical Monitoring
http://www.biomedical-monitoring.com/
They interface to full-bridge sensors, so can work directly with
Penny and Giles flexible electrogoniometers. They have a large
memory capacity on a removable card.
One difficulty with long term monitoring is the relatively low bridge
impedance of the Penny and Giles devices (120 ohm or so I believe)
which may drain the logger batteries. An option is to operate the
dataloggers in intermittent mode (where the excitation voltage
is only applied during sampling) to reduce power consumption, but
we have not tried this technique with the Penny and Giles devices.
I think it would be useful to the biomechanics community if you
circulate a summary of your replies/findings - this is a problem
faced by many labs.
_____________________________
Ben Heller SRCS (PhD)
Clinical Scientist (Electronics and Physiological Measurement)
Medical Physics, I Floor
Sheffield Teaching Hospitals
Hallamshire Hospital, Glossop Road
Sheffield
S10 2JF
UK
Tel xx 44 114 271 3675
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
We have the Mega ME-3000-P muscle testers for
data logging EMG, angle, foot switches, force in 2, 4 or 8 channels. They
use memory cards up to 32 MB.
For measuring angle, we have a goniometer amplifier which interfaces a
2-channel biometrics goniometer to the ME-3000-P unit.
With an 8-channel data logger, you could record 6 channels of angle and 2
channels of EMG. Using 4 MB memory, you could record at 10 samples per
second for 7 hours.
Yours truly,
\ Dave Hanneson \
\ BIOMATION \
\ 335 Perth Street, P.O. Box 156 \
\ Almonte, ON, Canada K0A 1A0 \
Tel: (613) 256-2821 Toll Free: 1-888-667-2324
Mobile: (613) 799-1179 Fax: (613) 256-5872
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi Shaw,
We have had similar problems to you and ended up producing our own
dataloggers and flexible goniometers. These are not in commercial production
at present. Having designed and built both components over the last few
years I am trying to get some papers written to stimulate in bit of
interest.
We have a datalogger that takes compact flash cards. We only use up to 8MB
cards at present but there is no reason why we can not extend this range.
Our maximum frequency of collection at present is 50Hz. There are 8 analog
channels but we only have 2 physically wired.
We also hand build some flexible goniometers based on optical fibre
technology that we use to monitor sagittal surface curves of the lumbar
spine. These with minor modification could be used on other body parts.
Our sensors are being continually developed, and as part of this process we
will probably be aiming to produce a similar but faster datalogger to cope
with a few extra channels at higher data collection rate ( a summer job).
If you are having huge problems getting hold of sensors or loggers then
please get in touch. As we are primarily research centred I would not
classify us as a reliable source of sensors or loggers as we produce them as
needed for our own use. Commercial production may come in the future.
A possible solution, as far as the loggers are concerned could be Physilog.
See K Aminian et al 2002. Spatio-temporal parameters of gait measured by an
ambulatory system using miniature gyroscopes, Journal of Biomechanics Vol 35
pp689-699. They appear to have a logger that would suit your purpose. It
appears to be a little on the large size to fit into a pocket comfortably.
Details at http://metwww.epfl.ch/physilog/PhysilogE.htm I have no idea of
cost.
Penny and Giles, now called Biometrics also produce their own datalogger but
this appears to still use an RS232 link which is rather slow for large
amounts of data. Also over-priced for what it is.
Biometrics in the US should be contactable at P.O. Box 340, Ladysmith, VA
22501,
Toll Free 800 543 6698. or Tel: 804 448 2520, Fax 804 448 0021.
Email: biometricsltd@compuserve.com
Web site: http:biometricsltd.com
Happy Hunting
Mark.
Dr Mark Stigant
University of Huddersfield,
Spinal Research Unit,
Ramsden Building,
Queensgate,
Huddersfield,
HD1 3DH
Tel 01484 472936
Fax xx 44 114 271 3403
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suppliers. Thanks to all respondents.
Dear Colleagues,
For an on-site occupational epidemiology study, we are looking for a
reliable supplier of flexible electrogoniometers (Penny and Giles or other)
and a portable data logger (4 to 6 channel) with sufficient memory to
collect at 60-120 Hz for at least one hour minimum. A data logger with
exchangeable memory cards would be optimal. Several manufacturers seem to be
out of business or are unresponsive to our inquiries.
Thank you,
Shaw
Shaw Bronner
Soar Research at Long Island University
122 Ashland Place #1A
Brooklyn, NY 11201
718-246-6377
fax 718-246-6383
email: sbronner@liu.edu
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Try Biomedical Monitoring at the address below. I believe they have a new
eight channel model with a 64 MB multimedia card for storage.
Tim
http://www.biomedical-monitoring.com/
Timothy R. Derrick, PhD
Iowa State University
Health and Human Performance
249 Forker Building
Ames, IA 50011
phone: (515) 294-8438
fax: (515) 294-8740
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
The goniometers and data
logger you are looking for are manufactured by Biometrics Ltd. in the UK.
Give them a call at 800-543-6698. Ask for Peter Seddon and tell him I told
you to call. They also have a web site www.biometricsltd.com
Regards,
Raymond McKenna, PT, PhD.
Stony Brook University
631-444-6169
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Shaw,
I am a grad student at McGill University in Canada. We
use a system produced by Mega Electronics (Kupopio,
Finland) model: Muscle Tester ME3000p8f. Its
distributor is Biomation, in Ontario. It is a portable
data logger and uses memory cards. The data is
downloadable into a computer. A program for this comes
with the system. Our model allows for up to 8 channels
(4 gonios). It was orginally designed for EMG data
collection, but can be arranged for gonio collection.
At 100hz, you can collect for about 5.5 hours. The
sampling rate can be set up to 10 000 hz. We actually
use this for simultaneous EMG and gonio data
collection. Works great AFTER you succesfully
configure the system with a computer. We had problems
with installing the system for many months. But, it
works great now. I estimate that there is a failure in
data collection every 1/20 attempts.
Best of luck,
Ryan
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dear Shaw,
We have worked quite a lot with equipment of Biovision. A German Company
which I would always recommend when it comes to problems you've
described. We did several ergonimics studies using their equipment when
I worked in Cologne Germany.
Try http://www.biovision-online.com/biovision_en.htm
The webpage does not contain their brand new solutions yet, but they
will easily allow for data capture over the time periods you've
mentioned.
Good luck,
Uwe
Uwe Kersting, PhD
Lecturer in Biomechanics
Sports and Exercise Science
University of Auckland
Phone: 09 373 7599 extn 6859
Fax: 09 373 7043
Email: u.kersting@auckland.ac.nz
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Shaw,
We have used the 4 channel data loggers from Biomedical Monitoring
http://www.biomedical-monitoring.com/
They interface to full-bridge sensors, so can work directly with
Penny and Giles flexible electrogoniometers. They have a large
memory capacity on a removable card.
One difficulty with long term monitoring is the relatively low bridge
impedance of the Penny and Giles devices (120 ohm or so I believe)
which may drain the logger batteries. An option is to operate the
dataloggers in intermittent mode (where the excitation voltage
is only applied during sampling) to reduce power consumption, but
we have not tried this technique with the Penny and Giles devices.
I think it would be useful to the biomechanics community if you
circulate a summary of your replies/findings - this is a problem
faced by many labs.
_____________________________
Ben Heller SRCS (PhD)
Clinical Scientist (Electronics and Physiological Measurement)
Medical Physics, I Floor
Sheffield Teaching Hospitals
Hallamshire Hospital, Glossop Road
Sheffield
S10 2JF
UK
Tel xx 44 114 271 3675
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
We have the Mega ME-3000-P muscle testers for
data logging EMG, angle, foot switches, force in 2, 4 or 8 channels. They
use memory cards up to 32 MB.
For measuring angle, we have a goniometer amplifier which interfaces a
2-channel biometrics goniometer to the ME-3000-P unit.
With an 8-channel data logger, you could record 6 channels of angle and 2
channels of EMG. Using 4 MB memory, you could record at 10 samples per
second for 7 hours.
Yours truly,
\ Dave Hanneson \
\ BIOMATION \
\ 335 Perth Street, P.O. Box 156 \
\ Almonte, ON, Canada K0A 1A0 \
Tel: (613) 256-2821 Toll Free: 1-888-667-2324
Mobile: (613) 799-1179 Fax: (613) 256-5872
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi Shaw,
We have had similar problems to you and ended up producing our own
dataloggers and flexible goniometers. These are not in commercial production
at present. Having designed and built both components over the last few
years I am trying to get some papers written to stimulate in bit of
interest.
We have a datalogger that takes compact flash cards. We only use up to 8MB
cards at present but there is no reason why we can not extend this range.
Our maximum frequency of collection at present is 50Hz. There are 8 analog
channels but we only have 2 physically wired.
We also hand build some flexible goniometers based on optical fibre
technology that we use to monitor sagittal surface curves of the lumbar
spine. These with minor modification could be used on other body parts.
Our sensors are being continually developed, and as part of this process we
will probably be aiming to produce a similar but faster datalogger to cope
with a few extra channels at higher data collection rate ( a summer job).
If you are having huge problems getting hold of sensors or loggers then
please get in touch. As we are primarily research centred I would not
classify us as a reliable source of sensors or loggers as we produce them as
needed for our own use. Commercial production may come in the future.
A possible solution, as far as the loggers are concerned could be Physilog.
See K Aminian et al 2002. Spatio-temporal parameters of gait measured by an
ambulatory system using miniature gyroscopes, Journal of Biomechanics Vol 35
pp689-699. They appear to have a logger that would suit your purpose. It
appears to be a little on the large size to fit into a pocket comfortably.
Details at http://metwww.epfl.ch/physilog/PhysilogE.htm I have no idea of
cost.
Penny and Giles, now called Biometrics also produce their own datalogger but
this appears to still use an RS232 link which is rather slow for large
amounts of data. Also over-priced for what it is.
Biometrics in the US should be contactable at P.O. Box 340, Ladysmith, VA
22501,
Toll Free 800 543 6698. or Tel: 804 448 2520, Fax 804 448 0021.
Email: biometricsltd@compuserve.com
Web site: http:biometricsltd.com
Happy Hunting
Mark.
Dr Mark Stigant
University of Huddersfield,
Spinal Research Unit,
Ramsden Building,
Queensgate,
Huddersfield,
HD1 3DH
Tel 01484 472936
Fax xx 44 114 271 3403
---------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe send SIGNOFF BIOMCH-L to LISTSERV@nic.surfnet.nl
For information and archives: http://isb.ri.ccf.org/biomch-l
---------------------------------------------------------------