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Here is a summary of replies (in chronological order) to my inquiry
regarding the current state of musculoskeletal simulation in
industry. There were fewer replies than I would have liked, but I
will chalk that up to the way the question was phrased (this was my
first post to the biomech list). Thank you to those who did reply. I
may try to reformulate the question based on some recent conversations
stemming from the initial replies. The original post is at the end of
the email.
Best,
David
David Wagner, PhD
Project Manager
Ozen Engineering
Phone: 408-732-4665
email: dwwagner@ozeninc.com
web: http://www.ozeninc.com/
************************************************** ******************
Have a look at HBM (Human Body Model) at http://www.motekmedical.com/hbm.html
.also there is a short movie clip of the realtim modules in action
at: http://www.motekmedical.com/movies.html (second from top)
Thanks
Oshri Even Zohar
CTO MOTEK MEDICAL
************************************************** ******************
Hi
Interesting posting and timely question on quickly developing subject!
Please find my contribution below.
All the best
James
Product: SAM
Name: James Shippen
Company: Marlbrook – www.marlbrook.com
Current simulation tool: Inverse dynamics, Integral graphical
manipulation tools, Muscle recruitment optimisation, Inclusion of mass/
damping/stiffness matrices describing deformable structures, Graphical
and tabulated output of muscle length, muscle force, muscle external
power. Emphasis is placed on minimal learning curve.
Application(s): SAM is implemented within the Matlab/Simulink
environment and can therefore provide muscluoskeletal modelling for
all Matlab/Simulink systems. Examples include automotive, aerospace,
biomedical, sports analysis and products.
************************************************** ******************
I don't know what your response will be to this style of email. I hope
it is good and honest but feel you may get two ends of the spectrum...
The dreamers and the doom and gloomers. Obviously reality lies somewhere
in between. In addition I do not think you will get many responses from
the people who really matter, industry. Anyhow here is my pennies worth,
especially as you are touting for business... Please do keep me updated
on your responses.
Ido not see simulation as the major issue itself. If you ask a motion
analysis expert (eg. The Charite, berlin) they will tell you they have
fully validated models. If you ask a company (say DePuy) they will say
the same, however these models are not used in anger in everyday testing
(well at least not in tribological analysis). Why you ask? Because there
is no significant driving force or improved result which offsets the
significant extra time these tools required. I think this is due to two
major factors. 1. legisation: In order to gain a CE/FDA approval there
is no need to do this level of analysis. I do not see this changing in
the short/med future as computational models are just that - models.
These agencies like this kind of analysis but are rightfully skeptical
of them as they can produce erronous results. 2. The models are not
encompassing enough. Often they have been validated with a small/medium
sample set (20 patients max), limiting the scope of viable application.
Hence the considerable extra time required to perform detailed analysis
does not produce a result worthy of the extra effort! Point two is
changing with the use of simple models as v rough design tools. (kansas
knee sim or lifemodeller kneesim type models) - however there is still a
long way to go in the academic arena before they are really used to
there full potential in industry. This will require a great deal of
time, effort and money.....
Pete
[P.Ellison@leeds.ac.uk]
************************************************** ******************
On Sep 29, 2008, at 2:39 PM, David Wagner wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I am trying to understand the current state of musculoskeletal
> simulation (a general term to say the least) and how it is currently
> utilized specifically in industry settings. I am also very
> interested in what improvement(s) to the current simulation tool set
> would make answering the 'difficult questions' easier. I have
> noticed there has been a recent rise in generalized musculoskeletal
> models that can be used to answer a variety of interesting academic
> topics. These include: AnyBody, LifeModeler, OpenSim, SAM, and SIMM
> (I am sure there are others and I apologize if your product is not
> listed. Feel free to email me additional software names and I will
> include them in the summary of replies). Although many of these
> products are very flexible in what they can do, I am not convinced
> that those, and other similar tools, (e.g. multi-body dynamic
> solvers (inverse and forward), muscle recruitment optimization,
> deformable models (FE), or conditional contact solvers) have been
> embraced/utilized for evaluating industry problems (I am being vague
> with 'industry problem' because I want to include as many groups as
> I can, i.e. medical devices, clinicians, sports equipment, etc.) on
> a large scale.
>
> I hope that people will treat this as an opportunity to help
> identify future research/product needs in this area that can be
> directly applicable to a specific industry need and/or problem.
> Plus, I think people tend to be very passionate about simulation,
> and any discussion that gets started here will be interesting.
>
> To organize the responses, I hope the following template will help.
> Please feel free to add any additional information you might think
> is relevant. I will compile the responses and post a summary for
> all subscribers.
>
> Name (optional):
> Company (optional):
> Industry (please be as specific as you can):
> Current simulation tool(s) (i.e. commercial product => please list,
> or a high-level description of the model/tool):
> Application(s) (problems/devices/questions that you attempt to
> answer/evaluate/address with your musculoskeletal simulations):
> Current simulation tool deficiencies:
> Holy Grail tool description (describe the capabilities of your ideal
> simulation tool => how you would use it, what you would be solving
> for, how happy it would make you feel, etc.):
>
> Best,
> David
> David Wagner, PhD
> Project Manager
> Ozen Engineering
> Phone: 408-732-4665
> email: dwwagner@ozeninc.com
> web: http://www.ozeninc.com/
>
>
Here is a summary of replies (in chronological order) to my inquiry
regarding the current state of musculoskeletal simulation in
industry. There were fewer replies than I would have liked, but I
will chalk that up to the way the question was phrased (this was my
first post to the biomech list). Thank you to those who did reply. I
may try to reformulate the question based on some recent conversations
stemming from the initial replies. The original post is at the end of
the email.
Best,
David
David Wagner, PhD
Project Manager
Ozen Engineering
Phone: 408-732-4665
email: dwwagner@ozeninc.com
web: http://www.ozeninc.com/
************************************************** ******************
Have a look at HBM (Human Body Model) at http://www.motekmedical.com/hbm.html
.also there is a short movie clip of the realtim modules in action
at: http://www.motekmedical.com/movies.html (second from top)
Thanks
Oshri Even Zohar
CTO MOTEK MEDICAL
************************************************** ******************
Hi
Interesting posting and timely question on quickly developing subject!
Please find my contribution below.
All the best
James
Product: SAM
Name: James Shippen
Company: Marlbrook – www.marlbrook.com
Current simulation tool: Inverse dynamics, Integral graphical
manipulation tools, Muscle recruitment optimisation, Inclusion of mass/
damping/stiffness matrices describing deformable structures, Graphical
and tabulated output of muscle length, muscle force, muscle external
power. Emphasis is placed on minimal learning curve.
Application(s): SAM is implemented within the Matlab/Simulink
environment and can therefore provide muscluoskeletal modelling for
all Matlab/Simulink systems. Examples include automotive, aerospace,
biomedical, sports analysis and products.
************************************************** ******************
I don't know what your response will be to this style of email. I hope
it is good and honest but feel you may get two ends of the spectrum...
The dreamers and the doom and gloomers. Obviously reality lies somewhere
in between. In addition I do not think you will get many responses from
the people who really matter, industry. Anyhow here is my pennies worth,
especially as you are touting for business... Please do keep me updated
on your responses.
Ido not see simulation as the major issue itself. If you ask a motion
analysis expert (eg. The Charite, berlin) they will tell you they have
fully validated models. If you ask a company (say DePuy) they will say
the same, however these models are not used in anger in everyday testing
(well at least not in tribological analysis). Why you ask? Because there
is no significant driving force or improved result which offsets the
significant extra time these tools required. I think this is due to two
major factors. 1. legisation: In order to gain a CE/FDA approval there
is no need to do this level of analysis. I do not see this changing in
the short/med future as computational models are just that - models.
These agencies like this kind of analysis but are rightfully skeptical
of them as they can produce erronous results. 2. The models are not
encompassing enough. Often they have been validated with a small/medium
sample set (20 patients max), limiting the scope of viable application.
Hence the considerable extra time required to perform detailed analysis
does not produce a result worthy of the extra effort! Point two is
changing with the use of simple models as v rough design tools. (kansas
knee sim or lifemodeller kneesim type models) - however there is still a
long way to go in the academic arena before they are really used to
there full potential in industry. This will require a great deal of
time, effort and money.....
Pete
[P.Ellison@leeds.ac.uk]
************************************************** ******************
On Sep 29, 2008, at 2:39 PM, David Wagner wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I am trying to understand the current state of musculoskeletal
> simulation (a general term to say the least) and how it is currently
> utilized specifically in industry settings. I am also very
> interested in what improvement(s) to the current simulation tool set
> would make answering the 'difficult questions' easier. I have
> noticed there has been a recent rise in generalized musculoskeletal
> models that can be used to answer a variety of interesting academic
> topics. These include: AnyBody, LifeModeler, OpenSim, SAM, and SIMM
> (I am sure there are others and I apologize if your product is not
> listed. Feel free to email me additional software names and I will
> include them in the summary of replies). Although many of these
> products are very flexible in what they can do, I am not convinced
> that those, and other similar tools, (e.g. multi-body dynamic
> solvers (inverse and forward), muscle recruitment optimization,
> deformable models (FE), or conditional contact solvers) have been
> embraced/utilized for evaluating industry problems (I am being vague
> with 'industry problem' because I want to include as many groups as
> I can, i.e. medical devices, clinicians, sports equipment, etc.) on
> a large scale.
>
> I hope that people will treat this as an opportunity to help
> identify future research/product needs in this area that can be
> directly applicable to a specific industry need and/or problem.
> Plus, I think people tend to be very passionate about simulation,
> and any discussion that gets started here will be interesting.
>
> To organize the responses, I hope the following template will help.
> Please feel free to add any additional information you might think
> is relevant. I will compile the responses and post a summary for
> all subscribers.
>
> Name (optional):
> Company (optional):
> Industry (please be as specific as you can):
> Current simulation tool(s) (i.e. commercial product => please list,
> or a high-level description of the model/tool):
> Application(s) (problems/devices/questions that you attempt to
> answer/evaluate/address with your musculoskeletal simulations):
> Current simulation tool deficiencies:
> Holy Grail tool description (describe the capabilities of your ideal
> simulation tool => how you would use it, what you would be solving
> for, how happy it would make you feel, etc.):
>
> Best,
> David
> David Wagner, PhD
> Project Manager
> Ozen Engineering
> Phone: 408-732-4665
> email: dwwagner@ozeninc.com
> web: http://www.ozeninc.com/
>
>