Tweet
Dear biomch-l community,
here is a summary of my request which I posted a few days ago. Some replies are in
German. Thanks to everyone who responded.
S. Schreiber
Original posting:
>I am a PhD student currently working on a project in which we try to investigate the
>role of joint play especially within the knee joint. Doing some modelling in 2D is just
>fine to get the idea but in order to draw relevant conclusions, we want to extend the
>concept in three space.
>
>We already measured the motion of a specimen using a 3D digitizer based on ultrasound
>markers fixed on both femur and tibia but the problem that we currently tackle with is
>the aquisition of the articulating joint surfaces of femur/tibia and femur/patella.
>
>
>We are aware that in literature people do work with 3D joint surface models. I would
>like to ask the netters...
>
>1. ...if someone has already performed such a measurement of joint surfaces and is
>willing to share some experience concerning the equipment used and the accuracy
>achieved.
>
>2. ...if someone is working with such data and can provide me with a dataset.
>
>Thank you for your time (and effort?!)
>
>Stefan Schreiber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: neil@isgtec.com (Neil Glossop)
Subject: Re: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
To: stefan@MECH1HOST.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de (Stefan Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 10:54:54 -0400
In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Schreiber" at Sep 2,
94 7:02 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Hi Stefan,
Funny you should ask this - I was creating such a model last night!
I digitised a tibia and femur yesterday to create a random point
cloud, and was just trying to generate triangular face data last
night by connecting the points. I have only done the tibial surface
so far and the results are OK but not great. I will play with it
some more, over the next few days.
You can have the data (point clouds and any faces that I can come up
with) if you are interested. I would really like any other surfaces
that you get. I can give them to you in ASCII and [possibly] DFX format.
Best wishes,
Neil
--
N. Glossop, Ph.D.,
ISG Technologies
Toronto, Canada
neil@isgtec.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: e.e.g.hekman@wb.utwente.nl (Edsko Hekman)
To: stefan@MECH1HOST.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de
Subject: RE: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 09:07:30 GMT
Return-Receipt-To: e.e.g.hekman@wb.utwente.nl
X-Mailer: SelectMAIL 1.0
Stefan,
Ich habe dein Bericht mit Beziehung zu Kniebewegung in 3D gelesen. Ich
moechte dich hinweisen zu dem PhD-thesis von L. Blankevoort (Universitaet Nimwegen):
'Passive motion characteristics of the Human Knee Joint'. Er hat,
unter anderen, ein Komputermodel gebaut dass die Bewegung der Knie simuliert.
So weit ich weiss ist er Mitglied des BIOMCH-L forums; dass heisst seine
e-mail Adresse muss bekannt sein bei dem Server (Man kann eine Adresse wie
folgt nachfragen bei LISTSERV : 'Review biomch-l' gibt eine Liste mit
alle Mitglieder, 'SCAN BIOMCH-L Blankevoort' sucht die Name 'Blankevoort' und
gibt die Adresse).
M.fr. gr.,
Edsko Hekman
Twente University
Fac. Werktuigbouwkunde - BW
Postbus 217
7500AE Enschede
The Netherlands
e-mail e.e.g.hekman@wb.utwente.nl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 1994 08:42:47 EDT
From: labmov@LAB01.SARAH.BR
To: stefan@MECH1HOST.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de
Subject: Re: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
Stephan,
I am sorry I can't help you :-( . The answers you get will certainly be
of interest for me and others - post a summary, please!
Good luck,
Haroldo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 16:46:27 +0800
To: Stefan Schreiber
From: ikirtley@info.curtin.edu.au (Chris Kirtley)
Subject: Re: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
Dear Stefan,
I am very interested in your work. I have a motion analysis sytem which I
have designed to measure the very small motions in the joints during quiet
standing. It works on the priciple of the optical lever with lasers. I am
using it to calculate the joint moments during postural sway. I had been
looking for work done on what happens to the knee ligaments as the knee
approaches full extension.
Can you tell me more about what you doing, as we may be able to collaborate.
Prost!
Chris
__________________________________________________ __________________
Dr. Chris Kirtley MB ChB, PhD c.kirtley@info.curtin.edu.au
^
Lecturer, Bio-engineering --_ / \
/ \
School of Physiotherapy, Perth #_.---._/
Curtin University of Technology, V
GPO Box U1987,
Perth 6001, Tel +61 9 381 0600
Western Australia. Fax +61 9 381 1496
__________________________________________________ __________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 09:35:59 -0600 (CST)
From: MEMCM@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Subject: knee data
To: stefan@mech1host.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de
X-Vms-To: IN%"stefan@mech1host.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Stefan
Several people have data in some form. Your best bet might be to contact the
group led by Rik Huiskes and Leandeart Blankevoort at Nijmegen. They have
spent fifteen years or so refining a model of the knee joint.
I am preparing an ultrasound system for acquiring surface and cartilage
thickness data, but will not have results for about one year.
later
Mike Murphy
memcm@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 13:04:47 +0200
From: diro@sirius.medizin.uni-ulm.de (Dieter Rosenbaum)
To: stefan@MECH1HOST.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de
Subject: Re: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
Hallo Stefan,
ich habe leider keine Antwort auf deine Fragen, wuerde mich
aber fuer Eure Arbeit interessieren, die Du erwaehnt hast.
Mit welchem Ultraschall-System habt Ihr die 3D-Bewegung am
Knie gemessen und welche Erfahrungen habt Ihr gemacht? Wir
ueberlegen naemlich gerade, ob wir eine aehnliche Vorgehensweise
fuer das Sprunggelenk angehen sollen.
Gru_,
Dieter Rosenbaum
********************************************
* Dr. Dieter Rosenbaum
* Abteilung Unfallchirurgische Forschung
* und Biomechanik
* Universitaet Ulm
* Helmholtzstr. 14
* 89081 ULM
* Germany
*
* phone: (0)731 - 502 3492
* fax: (0)731 - 502 3498
* email: diro@sirius.medizin.uni-ulm.de
********************************************
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
here is a summary of my request which I posted a few days ago. Some replies are in
German. Thanks to everyone who responded.
S. Schreiber
Original posting:
>I am a PhD student currently working on a project in which we try to investigate the
>role of joint play especially within the knee joint. Doing some modelling in 2D is just
>fine to get the idea but in order to draw relevant conclusions, we want to extend the
>concept in three space.
>
>We already measured the motion of a specimen using a 3D digitizer based on ultrasound
>markers fixed on both femur and tibia but the problem that we currently tackle with is
>the aquisition of the articulating joint surfaces of femur/tibia and femur/patella.
>
>
>We are aware that in literature people do work with 3D joint surface models. I would
>like to ask the netters...
>
>1. ...if someone has already performed such a measurement of joint surfaces and is
>willing to share some experience concerning the equipment used and the accuracy
>achieved.
>
>2. ...if someone is working with such data and can provide me with a dataset.
>
>Thank you for your time (and effort?!)
>
>Stefan Schreiber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: neil@isgtec.com (Neil Glossop)
Subject: Re: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
To: stefan@MECH1HOST.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de (Stefan Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 10:54:54 -0400
In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Schreiber" at Sep 2,
94 7:02 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Hi Stefan,
Funny you should ask this - I was creating such a model last night!
I digitised a tibia and femur yesterday to create a random point
cloud, and was just trying to generate triangular face data last
night by connecting the points. I have only done the tibial surface
so far and the results are OK but not great. I will play with it
some more, over the next few days.
You can have the data (point clouds and any faces that I can come up
with) if you are interested. I would really like any other surfaces
that you get. I can give them to you in ASCII and [possibly] DFX format.
Best wishes,
Neil
--
N. Glossop, Ph.D.,
ISG Technologies
Toronto, Canada
neil@isgtec.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: e.e.g.hekman@wb.utwente.nl (Edsko Hekman)
To: stefan@MECH1HOST.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de
Subject: RE: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 09:07:30 GMT
Return-Receipt-To: e.e.g.hekman@wb.utwente.nl
X-Mailer: SelectMAIL 1.0
Stefan,
Ich habe dein Bericht mit Beziehung zu Kniebewegung in 3D gelesen. Ich
moechte dich hinweisen zu dem PhD-thesis von L. Blankevoort (Universitaet Nimwegen):
'Passive motion characteristics of the Human Knee Joint'. Er hat,
unter anderen, ein Komputermodel gebaut dass die Bewegung der Knie simuliert.
So weit ich weiss ist er Mitglied des BIOMCH-L forums; dass heisst seine
e-mail Adresse muss bekannt sein bei dem Server (Man kann eine Adresse wie
folgt nachfragen bei LISTSERV : 'Review biomch-l' gibt eine Liste mit
alle Mitglieder, 'SCAN BIOMCH-L Blankevoort' sucht die Name 'Blankevoort' und
gibt die Adresse).
M.fr. gr.,
Edsko Hekman
Twente University
Fac. Werktuigbouwkunde - BW
Postbus 217
7500AE Enschede
The Netherlands
e-mail e.e.g.hekman@wb.utwente.nl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 1994 08:42:47 EDT
From: labmov@LAB01.SARAH.BR
To: stefan@MECH1HOST.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de
Subject: Re: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
Stephan,
I am sorry I can't help you :-( . The answers you get will certainly be
of interest for me and others - post a summary, please!
Good luck,
Haroldo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 16:46:27 +0800
To: Stefan Schreiber
From: ikirtley@info.curtin.edu.au (Chris Kirtley)
Subject: Re: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
Dear Stefan,
I am very interested in your work. I have a motion analysis sytem which I
have designed to measure the very small motions in the joints during quiet
standing. It works on the priciple of the optical lever with lasers. I am
using it to calculate the joint moments during postural sway. I had been
looking for work done on what happens to the knee ligaments as the knee
approaches full extension.
Can you tell me more about what you doing, as we may be able to collaborate.
Prost!
Chris
__________________________________________________ __________________
Dr. Chris Kirtley MB ChB, PhD c.kirtley@info.curtin.edu.au
^
Lecturer, Bio-engineering --_ / \
/ \
School of Physiotherapy, Perth #_.---._/
Curtin University of Technology, V
GPO Box U1987,
Perth 6001, Tel +61 9 381 0600
Western Australia. Fax +61 9 381 1496
__________________________________________________ __________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 09:35:59 -0600 (CST)
From: MEMCM@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Subject: knee data
To: stefan@mech1host.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de
X-Vms-To: IN%"stefan@mech1host.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Stefan
Several people have data in some form. Your best bet might be to contact the
group led by Rik Huiskes and Leandeart Blankevoort at Nijmegen. They have
spent fifteen years or so refining a model of the knee joint.
I am preparing an ultrasound system for acquiring surface and cartilage
thickness data, but will not have results for about one year.
later
Mike Murphy
memcm@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 13:04:47 +0200
From: diro@sirius.medizin.uni-ulm.de (Dieter Rosenbaum)
To: stefan@MECH1HOST.mechanik.th-darmstadt.de
Subject: Re: 3D Dataset of the knee joint
Hallo Stefan,
ich habe leider keine Antwort auf deine Fragen, wuerde mich
aber fuer Eure Arbeit interessieren, die Du erwaehnt hast.
Mit welchem Ultraschall-System habt Ihr die 3D-Bewegung am
Knie gemessen und welche Erfahrungen habt Ihr gemacht? Wir
ueberlegen naemlich gerade, ob wir eine aehnliche Vorgehensweise
fuer das Sprunggelenk angehen sollen.
Gru_,
Dieter Rosenbaum
********************************************
* Dr. Dieter Rosenbaum
* Abteilung Unfallchirurgische Forschung
* und Biomechanik
* Universitaet Ulm
* Helmholtzstr. 14
* 89081 ULM
* Germany
*
* phone: (0)731 - 502 3492
* fax: (0)731 - 502 3498
* email: diro@sirius.medizin.uni-ulm.de
********************************************
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------