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Hello Bio-Netters,
Again thank you to all that responded to my question on 1-24-95 regarding
information on spring type goniometers. The information we exactly what
we needed. Following is an edited list of all the reponses I recieved up
until 1:30pm (central) on1-25-94.
Thanks again,
Fabian
1.
Dear Fabian:
I think you may be referring to Penny and Giles goniometers which
are manufactured in Great Britain.
Lou Osternig
University of Oregon
2.
Fabian,
You may be thinking of the Penny and Giles elgons.
I have a USA address, but no phone no.
Penny & Giles, Inc.
2716 Ocean Park Blvd.
Suite 1005
Santa Monica, CA 90405
Good luck,
Jeff Ives, PhD
Dept Exercise Science
Campbell University
Buies Creek, NC 27506
jives@camel.campbell.edu
3.
Fabian,
The contact is Penny & Giles Biometrics, Balckwood Gwent NP@ 2YD, U.K.
Ph (0495) 228000, Fax (0495) 229 389
You might like to contact Dr Ian Thomas by email on 100413.722@COMPUSERVE.COM.
He listens to this list so he may very well contact you himself.
Regards
Tim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Timothy M Barker email t.barker@qut.edu.au
Lecturer in Medical Engineering phone (07) 864 5103
School of Mechanical & Manufacturing fax (07) 864 1469
Engineering
Queensland University of Technology
GPO Box 2434
Brisbane. QLD 4001
AUSTRALIA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4.
Fabian-
Penny Giles makes a series of unobtrusive TWO degree of freedom
goniometers which are made up two small endblocks connected with
a 12-18mm cord which is laced with strain gages. The cord has a
spring covering it for protection, so perhaps this is the product
to which you refer. (Also, their central hub is in England)
To measure the third degree of freedom, P&G also sells a torsiometer
of similar construct.
After doing quite a bit of research on the subject, these are
the only goniometers of their type I have come across. The
advantages are that they are small and unobtrusive. The drawbacks
are that they are delicate, only accurate to about +-2 degrees,
and (in my opinion) too expensive. Another grievance is that
the supporting power supply/amplifier can only handle four
channels (flex/ext, ab/add for two joints). Therefore, to
analyze both sides of a persons legs during gait, two power
supplies must be present.
So, as you see, the goniometers have their strengths and weaknesses.
In the end, however, I found that they were the best alternative
for my application and purchased them about a month ago.
Also, be aware that the opinions I expressed above are strictly
personal and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of other
colleagues at this institution.
Below is more information on Penny and Giles:
tel: (310) 393-0014
fax: (310) 450-9860
addr: 2716 Ocean Park Blve. Suite 1005
Santa Monica, CA 90405-5209
ask for Neal Handler and tell him Ben from the U of MN sent ya!
Good Luck.
Ben.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
Benjamin N. Dunn | University of Minnesota | [ ] [ ]
Research Assistant | 125 Mechanical Engineering | // \ / \\
tel: (612) 626-7310 | 111 Church St. SE | [ ] [ ] [ ]
FAX: (612) 624-1398 | Minneapolis, MN 55455 | U of MN
e-mail: bdunn@me.umn.edu | |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
5.
The goniometers you referred to I believe are made by:
Penny and Giles Biometrics Ltd.
Blackwood Gwent
NP2 2YD United Kingdom
Phone (0495) 228000
telex 498135
fax: (0495) 229389
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcus P. Besser, PhD []
Assistant Director, Human Performance Laboratory _ /_/
Assistant Professsor, Department of Physical Therapy / /
Thomas Jefferson University / \
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA 19107-5233 /_ \_
Phone: 1-215-955-1645 Fax: 1-215-923-2475 email: besserm@jeflin.tju.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
6.
Dear Fabian,
We have used goniometers made by bonding a long strain gauge to a
very thin strip of shim steel. We originally got the idea from someone
at the University of Strathclyde I think. I can't find the preprint of
the paper giving details, and it is rather dificult to describe. However,
if you send me your fax number I will fax you some information.
Regards,
Alan Walmsley
School of Physical Education
Division of Sciences
University of Otago
Dunedin, New Zealand.
Ph (03) 4799122, Fax (03) 4798309
7.
Dear Fabian,
try to contact Penny & Giles. Herebelow is the address:
Penny & Giles
Blackwood Limied
Blackwood Gwent
NP2 2YD United Kingdom
Telephone:+44 495 228000
Fax: +44 495 229389
Good luck|
Marina
Marina Torre
Laboratorio di Ingegneria Biomedica
Istituto Superiore di Sanita'
Viale Regina Elena 299
00161 ROMA
Italy
8.
this is most probably the Peny & Giles goniometer from UK.
in single axis rotations they are very good and clever as the measure
of rotation is independent of the centre of rotation but the 2D model
is problematic when movement about the 3rd axis occurs.
Sincerely
Hamid
9.
Dear Fabian,
I saw a paper in Proceedings of the Institution of Mechanical
Engineers (Part H) Journal of Engineering in Medicine, Vol. 207,
No. H4, p. 207-210.
The article is called: "An instrumented glove for monitoring MCP
joint motion." by D.T. Rand and A.C. Nicol. They are in the
Bioengineering Unit, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland.
This involved using a lycra glove which had been instrumented with a
low-profile electrogoniometer for measuring index and middle finger
mcp flexion/extension motion.
They describe the electrogoniometer as consisting of flexible
strain-gauged core wire housed inside microbore Teflon tubing.
I hope this is of some help to you, though I don't know about
measuring motion in three planes.
Regards,
Victor Waide
Victor Waide
Bioengineering Research Centre
Mechanical Engineering Department
University College Dublin
Belfield, Dublin 4
IRELAND
e-mail: vwaide@ollamh.ucd.ie
>From what you wrote, I guess you are talking about ELECTRO-
GONIOMETERS, made by PENNY AND GILES BIOMETRICS LIMITED (UK). I have
used them myself for my research.
They produce and sell electrogoniometers in different sizes,
according to the joint you need to measure (from small finger joints
to knee joint, etc.). They also sell the amplifier for these electro-
goniometers.
About this point, many people, in the past, have complained about
voltage drifts in the electrogoniometer output, thus leading to
inaccuracies. I got in touch with the company more than once, and
they say that voltage drifts do occur when their electrogoniometers
are connected to 'home-made' amplifiers, i.e., amplifiers which are
different from the those they sell together with their electro-
goniometers.
Therefore, if you are going to enquire about this equipment to the
company, ask also for quotations about their amplifiers, since
buying the latters would avoid many future problems.
Well, after this introduction, I think I should give you their
address:
PENNY & GILES BIOMETRICS LIMITED
BLACKWOOD GWENT NP2 2YD - U.K.
telephone: +44-0495-228000
telex : +44-498135
fax : +44-0495-229389
I hope this information will be useful to you and in case you need
more information, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,
MARCO SANTELLO
m.santello@bham.ac.uk
Fax: +44-21-4144121
10.
Dear Fabian,
I believe the goniometers you are looking for are manufactured by
Penny and Giles in the UK. I have two addresses:
Penny and Giles, Blackwood Ltd.,
Blackwood, Gwent,
NP2 2YD, United Kingdom
Tel: (0495) 228000
FAX: (0495) 229389
Penny and Giles Inc.,
2716 Ocean Park Blvd #1005,
Santa Monica,
California 90405
Tel: (213) 393 0014
FAX: (213) 450 9860
Hope this helps
Adrian Liggins PhD PEng
Research Engineer
Orthopaedic Research Laboratory
University Hospital
London, Ontario
N6A 5A5 Canada
10.
I believe you are referring to "torsiometers" made by Penny & Giles.
Contact:
Penny & Giles Inc.
2716 )cean Park Boulevard
Suite 1005
Santa Monica, CA 90405
(213) 393-0014
This address is a few years old but I believe it is accurate.
Larry Abraham, EdD
Kinesiology & Health Education
The University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712 USA
(512)471-1273 FAX (512)471-8914
11.
The goniometers are made by Penny & Giles Biometrics Ltd.
There are represented in the US by:
Penny & Giles Inc.
2716 Ocean Park Blvd., Suite 1005
Santa Monica, CA 90405
(213) 393-0014
Fax: (213) 450-9860
I have a couple biaxial M180 goniometers. I have been using one axis at a
time because of the cross-talk between the two axes. Good Luck.
12.
I have used some flexible twin axis electrogoniometers made by Penny and
Giles in Santa Monica California. They have a small flat plastic "bar" at
each end that can be attached to the skin, connected by a spring which can
measure two degrees of freedom. They come in several sizes. I don't have
any more information about the company and I am no longer at the facility
where I used them. I will caution you that the smallest goniometers, for
the fingers, are VERY fragile but the size we used on the wrist worked
quite well.
13.
The device you are refering to is made by Penny and Giles located in
Blackwood Gwent, England. The phone number is (0495) 228000 and the fax is
(0495) 229389. The contact we have used in the United States is Neal
Handler who is located in Santa Monica, CA his phone number is (310)
393-0014 and his fax is (310) 450-9860.
14.
Fabian,
We noted your posting on Biomch-l concerning the spring goniometers - we
are the Company who make the "Spring - electrogoniometers" - we haven't yet read
the posting, but can we help ?
Regards Dr Ian Thomas, Penny and Giles Biometrics Ltd., Newbridge Road,
Blackwood, Gwent UK NP2 2YD
Tel +44 1495 228000 Fax +44 1495 221079 Email 100413.722@COMPUSERVE.COM
15.
you need Penny and Giles goniometers
Try contacting Malcolm Ellis at MIE Medical Research Ltd.
Upper Wortley Rd. Leeds. UK (tell him I sent you!)
Philip Helliwell
RRRU, 36, Clarendon Road, LEEDS, LS2 9NZ, UK
Tel: +44 113 2334935 Fax: +44 113 2445533
Again thank you to all that responded to my question on 1-24-95 regarding
information on spring type goniometers. The information we exactly what
we needed. Following is an edited list of all the reponses I recieved up
until 1:30pm (central) on1-25-94.
Thanks again,
Fabian
1.
Dear Fabian:
I think you may be referring to Penny and Giles goniometers which
are manufactured in Great Britain.
Lou Osternig
University of Oregon
2.
Fabian,
You may be thinking of the Penny and Giles elgons.
I have a USA address, but no phone no.
Penny & Giles, Inc.
2716 Ocean Park Blvd.
Suite 1005
Santa Monica, CA 90405
Good luck,
Jeff Ives, PhD
Dept Exercise Science
Campbell University
Buies Creek, NC 27506
jives@camel.campbell.edu
3.
Fabian,
The contact is Penny & Giles Biometrics, Balckwood Gwent NP@ 2YD, U.K.
Ph (0495) 228000, Fax (0495) 229 389
You might like to contact Dr Ian Thomas by email on 100413.722@COMPUSERVE.COM.
He listens to this list so he may very well contact you himself.
Regards
Tim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Timothy M Barker email t.barker@qut.edu.au
Lecturer in Medical Engineering phone (07) 864 5103
School of Mechanical & Manufacturing fax (07) 864 1469
Engineering
Queensland University of Technology
GPO Box 2434
Brisbane. QLD 4001
AUSTRALIA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4.
Fabian-
Penny Giles makes a series of unobtrusive TWO degree of freedom
goniometers which are made up two small endblocks connected with
a 12-18mm cord which is laced with strain gages. The cord has a
spring covering it for protection, so perhaps this is the product
to which you refer. (Also, their central hub is in England)
To measure the third degree of freedom, P&G also sells a torsiometer
of similar construct.
After doing quite a bit of research on the subject, these are
the only goniometers of their type I have come across. The
advantages are that they are small and unobtrusive. The drawbacks
are that they are delicate, only accurate to about +-2 degrees,
and (in my opinion) too expensive. Another grievance is that
the supporting power supply/amplifier can only handle four
channels (flex/ext, ab/add for two joints). Therefore, to
analyze both sides of a persons legs during gait, two power
supplies must be present.
So, as you see, the goniometers have their strengths and weaknesses.
In the end, however, I found that they were the best alternative
for my application and purchased them about a month ago.
Also, be aware that the opinions I expressed above are strictly
personal and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of other
colleagues at this institution.
Below is more information on Penny and Giles:
tel: (310) 393-0014
fax: (310) 450-9860
addr: 2716 Ocean Park Blve. Suite 1005
Santa Monica, CA 90405-5209
ask for Neal Handler and tell him Ben from the U of MN sent ya!
Good Luck.
Ben.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
Benjamin N. Dunn | University of Minnesota | [ ] [ ]
Research Assistant | 125 Mechanical Engineering | // \ / \\
tel: (612) 626-7310 | 111 Church St. SE | [ ] [ ] [ ]
FAX: (612) 624-1398 | Minneapolis, MN 55455 | U of MN
e-mail: bdunn@me.umn.edu | |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
5.
The goniometers you referred to I believe are made by:
Penny and Giles Biometrics Ltd.
Blackwood Gwent
NP2 2YD United Kingdom
Phone (0495) 228000
telex 498135
fax: (0495) 229389
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcus P. Besser, PhD []
Assistant Director, Human Performance Laboratory _ /_/
Assistant Professsor, Department of Physical Therapy / /
Thomas Jefferson University / \
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA 19107-5233 /_ \_
Phone: 1-215-955-1645 Fax: 1-215-923-2475 email: besserm@jeflin.tju.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
6.
Dear Fabian,
We have used goniometers made by bonding a long strain gauge to a
very thin strip of shim steel. We originally got the idea from someone
at the University of Strathclyde I think. I can't find the preprint of
the paper giving details, and it is rather dificult to describe. However,
if you send me your fax number I will fax you some information.
Regards,
Alan Walmsley
School of Physical Education
Division of Sciences
University of Otago
Dunedin, New Zealand.
Ph (03) 4799122, Fax (03) 4798309
7.
Dear Fabian,
try to contact Penny & Giles. Herebelow is the address:
Penny & Giles
Blackwood Limied
Blackwood Gwent
NP2 2YD United Kingdom
Telephone:+44 495 228000
Fax: +44 495 229389
Good luck|
Marina
Marina Torre
Laboratorio di Ingegneria Biomedica
Istituto Superiore di Sanita'
Viale Regina Elena 299
00161 ROMA
Italy
8.
this is most probably the Peny & Giles goniometer from UK.
in single axis rotations they are very good and clever as the measure
of rotation is independent of the centre of rotation but the 2D model
is problematic when movement about the 3rd axis occurs.
Sincerely
Hamid
9.
Dear Fabian,
I saw a paper in Proceedings of the Institution of Mechanical
Engineers (Part H) Journal of Engineering in Medicine, Vol. 207,
No. H4, p. 207-210.
The article is called: "An instrumented glove for monitoring MCP
joint motion." by D.T. Rand and A.C. Nicol. They are in the
Bioengineering Unit, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland.
This involved using a lycra glove which had been instrumented with a
low-profile electrogoniometer for measuring index and middle finger
mcp flexion/extension motion.
They describe the electrogoniometer as consisting of flexible
strain-gauged core wire housed inside microbore Teflon tubing.
I hope this is of some help to you, though I don't know about
measuring motion in three planes.
Regards,
Victor Waide
Victor Waide
Bioengineering Research Centre
Mechanical Engineering Department
University College Dublin
Belfield, Dublin 4
IRELAND
e-mail: vwaide@ollamh.ucd.ie
>From what you wrote, I guess you are talking about ELECTRO-
GONIOMETERS, made by PENNY AND GILES BIOMETRICS LIMITED (UK). I have
used them myself for my research.
They produce and sell electrogoniometers in different sizes,
according to the joint you need to measure (from small finger joints
to knee joint, etc.). They also sell the amplifier for these electro-
goniometers.
About this point, many people, in the past, have complained about
voltage drifts in the electrogoniometer output, thus leading to
inaccuracies. I got in touch with the company more than once, and
they say that voltage drifts do occur when their electrogoniometers
are connected to 'home-made' amplifiers, i.e., amplifiers which are
different from the those they sell together with their electro-
goniometers.
Therefore, if you are going to enquire about this equipment to the
company, ask also for quotations about their amplifiers, since
buying the latters would avoid many future problems.
Well, after this introduction, I think I should give you their
address:
PENNY & GILES BIOMETRICS LIMITED
BLACKWOOD GWENT NP2 2YD - U.K.
telephone: +44-0495-228000
telex : +44-498135
fax : +44-0495-229389
I hope this information will be useful to you and in case you need
more information, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,
MARCO SANTELLO
m.santello@bham.ac.uk
Fax: +44-21-4144121
10.
Dear Fabian,
I believe the goniometers you are looking for are manufactured by
Penny and Giles in the UK. I have two addresses:
Penny and Giles, Blackwood Ltd.,
Blackwood, Gwent,
NP2 2YD, United Kingdom
Tel: (0495) 228000
FAX: (0495) 229389
Penny and Giles Inc.,
2716 Ocean Park Blvd #1005,
Santa Monica,
California 90405
Tel: (213) 393 0014
FAX: (213) 450 9860
Hope this helps
Adrian Liggins PhD PEng
Research Engineer
Orthopaedic Research Laboratory
University Hospital
London, Ontario
N6A 5A5 Canada
10.
I believe you are referring to "torsiometers" made by Penny & Giles.
Contact:
Penny & Giles Inc.
2716 )cean Park Boulevard
Suite 1005
Santa Monica, CA 90405
(213) 393-0014
This address is a few years old but I believe it is accurate.
Larry Abraham, EdD
Kinesiology & Health Education
The University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712 USA
(512)471-1273 FAX (512)471-8914
11.
The goniometers are made by Penny & Giles Biometrics Ltd.
There are represented in the US by:
Penny & Giles Inc.
2716 Ocean Park Blvd., Suite 1005
Santa Monica, CA 90405
(213) 393-0014
Fax: (213) 450-9860
I have a couple biaxial M180 goniometers. I have been using one axis at a
time because of the cross-talk between the two axes. Good Luck.
12.
I have used some flexible twin axis electrogoniometers made by Penny and
Giles in Santa Monica California. They have a small flat plastic "bar" at
each end that can be attached to the skin, connected by a spring which can
measure two degrees of freedom. They come in several sizes. I don't have
any more information about the company and I am no longer at the facility
where I used them. I will caution you that the smallest goniometers, for
the fingers, are VERY fragile but the size we used on the wrist worked
quite well.
13.
The device you are refering to is made by Penny and Giles located in
Blackwood Gwent, England. The phone number is (0495) 228000 and the fax is
(0495) 229389. The contact we have used in the United States is Neal
Handler who is located in Santa Monica, CA his phone number is (310)
393-0014 and his fax is (310) 450-9860.
14.
Fabian,
We noted your posting on Biomch-l concerning the spring goniometers - we
are the Company who make the "Spring - electrogoniometers" - we haven't yet read
the posting, but can we help ?
Regards Dr Ian Thomas, Penny and Giles Biometrics Ltd., Newbridge Road,
Blackwood, Gwent UK NP2 2YD
Tel +44 1495 228000 Fax +44 1495 221079 Email 100413.722@COMPUSERVE.COM
15.
you need Penny and Giles goniometers
Try contacting Malcolm Ellis at MIE Medical Research Ltd.
Upper Wortley Rd. Leeds. UK (tell him I sent you!)
Philip Helliwell
RRRU, 36, Clarendon Road, LEEDS, LS2 9NZ, UK
Tel: +44 113 2334935 Fax: +44 113 2445533