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  • Summere: Gripping digital dog tendons with a knot in a conic hole?

    Hello All

    Here is a summery of the replies on my question on gripping dog tendons in
    tensile testing , by a knot.

    ------------------------------------------------
    The original message:

    > Dear All
    >
    > I plan to do in-vitro tensile loading on tendons.
    > The tendons I am using are digital dog tendons.
    > I plan to grip the tendons by making a knot at the end of the tendon and
    > put the tendon through a conic hole so the knot will be stuck inside the
    > conic hole.
    > The knot should also "lock" the internal structure of the tendon.
    > In relation with the setting I have presented above, I have two
    > questions:
    >
    > 1) Form the literature search I did, I couldn't find any source in which
    > tensile loading experiments were done on digital tendons, neither from
    > dogs or any other animal.
    > Could someone give me any reason why not to use these tendons?
    >
    > 2) I also didn't find any reference in which the tendon was tied in a
    > knot.
    > Could someone give me a reason why not to use this method? (aside from
    > the possibility of rupture of the tendon in the area of the knot because
    > of breakdown of fibbers) .
    >
    > I'll be very grateful to get any comment on this subject.
    > Arik
    > -----------------------------
    > bmesver@tx.technion.ac.il
    >
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *******

    The answers:

    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& &&

    On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Tim Foutz wrote:
    >
    > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:39:42 -0400
    > From: Tim Foutz
    > To: BIOMCH-L@NIC.SURFNET.NL
    > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biomch-l
    > Subject: Re: Gripping digital dog tendons with a knot in a conic hole?
    >
    > look at Van Walsum's work with the digital tendon of chickens. He had an
    > interesting procedure.
    >
    >
    > On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Ariel wrote:
    >
    > > Dear All
    > >
    > > I plan to do in-vitro tensile loading on tendons.
    > > The tendons I am using are digital dog tendons.
    > > I plan to grip the tendons by making a knot at the end of the tendon and
    > > put the tendon through a conic hole so the knot will be stuck inside the
    > > conic hole.
    > > The knot should also "lock" the internal structure of the tendon.
    > > In relation with the setting I have presented above, I have two
    > > questions:
    > >
    > > 1) Form the literature search I did, I couldn't find any source in which
    > > tensile loading experiments were done on digital tendons, neither from
    > > dogs or any other animal.
    > > Could someone give me any reason why not to use these tendons?
    > >
    > > 2) I also didn't find any reference in which the tendon was tied in a
    > > knot.
    > > Could someone give me a reason why not to use this method? (aside from
    > > the possibility of rupture of the tendon in the area of the knot because
    > > of breakdown of fibbers) .
    > >
    > > I'll be very grateful to get any comment on this subject.
    > > Arik
    > > -----------------------------
    > > bmesver@tx.technion.ac.il
    > >
    > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
    > > To unsubscribe send UNSUBSCRIBE BIOMCH-L to LISTSERV@nic.surfnet.nl
    > > For more information: http://www.kin.ucalgary.ca/isb/biomch-l.html
    > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
    > >
    >
    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
    > To unsubscribe send UNSUBSCRIBE BIOMCH-L to LISTSERV@nic.surfnet.nl
    > For more information: http://www.kin.ucalgary.ca/isb/biomch-l.html
    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
    >

    On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Steve Katz wrote:
    >
    > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:39:37 -0700
    > From: Steve Katz
    > To: bmesver@techunix.technion.ac.il
    > Subject: gripping tendons -
    >
    >
    >
    > Ariel
    >
    > I have every confidence that you have already received adequate replies to
    > your e-mail - but in the event you have not I figured I would reply.
    >
    > The alternative to knots is to freeze the end of the test piece that you are
    > gripping. Take a large grip - which is to say a big hunk of metal that has
    > a significant thermal inertia and grip the test piece and dunk the entire
    > gripped end into liquid N2. The tendon will get hard and will be held onto
    > more effectively by the grips. One can also obtain grips that are machined
    > to allow a cooling fluid to circulate through the grip for the duration of
    > the testing protocol - but that costs more money.
    >
    > Among the troubles with knots is that they create a stress concentration
    > that is in addition to any stress concentration that arises simply from
    > gripping. This stress concentration is a guarenteed failure point - which
    > of course makes the rest of the test hard to interprit.
    >
    > I cant think of a reference to the literature off the top of my head - but
    > surely McNeil Alexander pulled on dog tendon? No? Perhaps not digital
    > tendon, but surely achillies, and I suspect digital as well.
    >
    > Cheers
    > Steve Katz
    >

    On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Julie A. Martin wrote:
    >
    > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:01:46 -0400 (EDT)
    > From: "Julie A. Martin"
    > To: Ariel
    > Subject: Re: Gripping digital dog tendons with a knot in a conic hole?
    >
    > SL-Y Woo has done work with digital flexor tendons of swine...sometime
    > around 1982. I'll check the reference and my files for others.
    >
    > Julie Martin
    > UVM
    >

    On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Ton van den Bogert wrote:
    >
    > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 13:27:04 MDT
    > From: Ton van den Bogert
    > To: bmesver@techunix.technion.ac.il
    > Subject: Re: Gripping digital dog tendons with a knot in a conic hole?
    >
    > >1) Form the literature search I did, I couldn't find any source in which
    > >tensile loading experiments were done on digital tendons, neither from
    > >dogs or any other animal.
    > >Could someone give me any reason why not to use these tendons?
    >
    > Much work has been done on digital tendons of the horse. Here's
    > a recent reference:
    >
    > Jansen MO & Savelberg HHCM (1994) Equine Vet J 17:57-60
    >
    > >2) I also didn't find any reference in which the tendon was tied in a
    > >knot.
    > >Could someone give me a reason why not to use this method? (aside from
    > >the possibility of rupture of the tendon in the area of the knot because
    > >of breakdown of fibbers) .
    >
    > Equine tendons are so thick that the knot will always slip. For
    > dog tendons your technique may work, though. A widely used
    > technique is the 'cryo-jaw', where the end of the tendon is
    > frozen in a clamp (Riemersma & Schamhardt,
    > J. Biomech. 15:619-620, 1982). I know that this clamp was also
    > used by McNeill Alexander's group in Leeds for tendons of other
    > animals.
    >
    > The clamping procedure becomes critical when you are measuring
    > strain close to the clamp. The clamp (or knot, for that matter)
    > may make the strain distribution very non-uniform. When
    > measuring strain in individual fibre bundles (e.g. with a
    > mercury-in-Silastic strain gauge), this effect may persist even
    > at large distances from the clamp. Surface strains are not as
    > sensitive to clamping.
    >
    > -- Ton van den Bogert
    > The University of Calgary
    >
    >
    >

    On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, M.H. SHEREBRIN wrote:
    >
    > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 16:44:32 EDT
    > From: "M.H. SHEREBRIN"
    > To: bmesver@techunix.technion.ac.il
    > Cc: ve3fhx@uwovax.uwo.ca
    > Subject: tendon testing
    >
    > Hi Arik,
    >
    > I have worked with a plastic surgeon on the tendons of chicken foot.
    >
    > We have done a fair bit of testing intact and healing severed fibres.
    >
    > Our paper is:
    >
    > The effects of ultrasound treatment on flexor tendon healing
    > in the chicken limb.
    >
    > BS Gan S Huys MH Sherebrin CG Scilley
    >
    > Journal of Hand Surgery (British and European Volume, 1995) 20B: 6: 809-814.
    >
    > I am still working on the analysis for a more technical journal like
    > J. Biomech. but have just retired and am soon moving to Karmiel, just down
    > the road from the Technion. I did a sabbatical in the Biophysics/physiology
    > dept in 1976/77.
    >
    > I have been corresponding with Dan Adam recently to try and make
    > connections there.
    >
    > Best of luck in your research and perhaps we can meet in October.
    >
    > Shalom,
    >
    > Marvin Sherebrin
    >
    > Professor Emeritus
    >
    > M. H. Sherebrin, Associate Professor
    > Dept. of Medical Biophysics Phone (519) 679 2111 ext 6549
    > Univ. of Western Ontario Dept phone (519) 661 3053
    > London, Ontario, Canada N6A 5C1 Dept fax (519) 661 2123
    >
    > email: sherebrin@uwovax.uwo.ca
    >
    >
    >

    On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Julie A. Martin wrote:
    >
    > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:52:53 -0400 (EDT)
    > From: "Julie A. Martin"
    > To: Ariel
    > Subject: Re: Gripping digital dog tendons with a knot in a conic hole?
    >
    > Here's the reference for Woo et al's paper:
    >
    > Woo SL-Y, Gomez MA, Woo Y-K, Akeson WH: Mechanical properties of tendons
    > and ligaments [2 parts]. Biorheology, 19: 397-408, 1982.
    >
    > Where doing some tensile testing of rabbit MCLs and Achilles tendons. For
    > the tendon tests we're going to use a freeze clamping technique. Have you
    > explored this at all?
    >
    > Julie M.
    >

    On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Santosh Zachariah wrote:
    >
    > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 15:00:11 -0700
    > From: Santosh Zachariah
    > To: bmesver@techunix.technion.ac.il
    > Subject: Gripping tendons
    >
    > Arik,
    >
    > I have not used the knot-in-a-hole technique you speak off,
    > but am very sceptical that you can get an accurate gauge-length
    > (reference configuration) from such a setup. This in turn could
    > introduce a significant error on your strain estimates, depending
    > on how you will measure strain.
    >
    > -- Santosh Zachariah --
    >
    > Research Associate, Dept. of Bioengineering
    > Univ. of Washington, Box 352255, Seattle, WA 98195, USA
    > ph: (206) 685-3488, fax: (206) 543-6124
    > zach@limbs.bioeng.washington.edu
    >


    On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 BEARDC@pfizer.com wrote:
    >
    > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:46:11 -0400
    > From: BEARDC@pfizer.com
    > To: " - (052)bmesver(a)tx.technion.ac.il"
    >
    > Subject: Re: Gripping digital dog tendons with a knot in a conic hole
    >
    > >2) I also didn't find any reference in which the tendon was tied in a
    > >knot.
    > >Could someone give me a reason why not to use this method? (aside
    > >from the possibility of rupture of the tendon in the area of the knot
    > >because of breakdown of fibbers) .
    >
    > Arik,
    >
    > In regard to your second question,I have tested goat toe flexor
    > tendons using knots in the ends. I have found that in most cases, the
    > specimen either fails at the knot rather than in a midsubstance area,
    > or else the knot unravels due to the slipperyness of the specimen.
    > Suturing or freezing the knot does help slippage, but adds to the
    > stress concentration and therefore does not work consistently.
    >
    > Sincerely yours,
    >
    > Christina L. Beardsley
    > Research Assistant
    > Howmedica Inc.
    >

    On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Serena S. Chan Saw wrote:
    >
    > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 08:40:46 -0400
    > From: "Serena S. Chan Saw"
    > To: bmesver@techunix.technion.ac.il
    > Subject: Re: Gripping digital dog tendons with a knot in a conic hole?
    >
    > >1) Form the literature search I did, I couldn't find any source in which
    > >tensile loading experiments were done on digital tendons, neither from
    > >dogs or any other animal.
    > >Could someone give me any reason why not to use these tendons?
    >
    > I don't know where you were looking but you might want to try looking
    > again. There has been tons of work on tensile loading on digital tendons,
    > although, the common term is flexor tendons. It has at least been done in
    > chickens, dogs and humans. This has been an extensively studied tendon. A
    > sample of references include:
    >
    > 1) Carlson GD, Botte MJ, Josephs MS, Newton PO, Davis JLW and Woo
    > SL-Y: Morphologic and biomechanical comparison of tendons used as free
    > grafts. Journal of Hand Surgery, 18A(1):76-82, 1993.
    >
    > 2) Feehan LM and Geauchene JG: Early tensile properties of healing
    > chicken flexor tendons: Early controlle dpassive motion versus
    > postoperative immobilization. Journal of Hand Surgery, 15A(1):63-68, 1990.
    >
    > 3) Gelberman RH, Woo SL-Y, Lothringer K, Akeson WH and Amiel D:
    > Effects of early intermittent passive mobilization on healing canine flexor
    > tendons. Journal of Hand Surgery, 7(2):170-175, 1982.
    >
    > 4) Horii E, Lin GT, Cooney WP, Linscheid RL and An KN: Comparative
    > flexor tendon excursion after passive mobilization: An in vitro study.
    > Journal of Hand Surgery, 17A:559-566, 1992.
    >
    > 5) Mashadi ZB and Amis AA: Variation of holding strength of synthetic
    > absorbable flexor tendon sutures with time. Journal of Hand Surgery,
    > 17B(3):278-281, 1992.
    >
    > 6) Mason ML and Allen HS: The rate of healing of tendons: Experimental
    > study of tensile strength. Annals Of Surg., 113:424-459, 1941.
    >
    > 7) McCarthy DM, Tramaglini DM, Chan SS, Schmidt CC, Sotereanos DG and
    > Herndon JH: Effect of partial laceration on the structural properties of
    > the canine FDP tendon: An In Vitro Study. Journal of Hand Surgery,
    > 20A:795-800, 1995.
    >
    > 8) McDowell CL and Snyder DM: Tendon healing: An experimental model in
    > the dog. J. Hand Surg., 2(2):122-126, 1977.
    >
    > 9) Noguchi M, Seiler JG, Gelberman RH, Sofranko RS and Woo SL-Y: In
    > vitro biomechanical analysis of suture methods for flexor tendon repair.
    > Journal of Orthopaedic Research, 11(4):603-611, 1993.
    >
    > 10) Okuda Y, Gorski JP, An K-N and Amadio PC: Biochemical,
    > histological, and biomechanical analyses of canine tendon. Journal of
    > Orthopaedic Research, 5(1):60-68, 1987.
    >
    > 11) Ollinger H, Wray RC and Weeks PM: Effects of suture on tensile
    > strength gain of partially and completely severed tendons. Surgical Forum.,
    > 26:63-64, 1975.
    >
    > 12) Peterson W: Effect of Pulley Excision on Flexor tendon
    > Biomechanics. Journal of Orthopedic Research, 4(#1)p. 96-101, 1986.
    >
    > 13) Woo SL-Y, Gelberman RH, Cobb NG, Amiel D, Lothringer K and Akeson
    > WH: The importance of controlled passive mobilization on flexor tendon
    > healing. Acta Orthopedica Scandinavia, 52:615-622, 1981.
    >
    > 14) Wray RC, Ollinger H and Weeks PM: Effects of mobilization on
    > tensile strength of partial tendon lacerations. Surgical Forum, 26:557-558,
    > 1975.
    >
    > You might want to try looking at these references and seeing what they
    > reference as well. Good journals to look in inlcude Journal of Hand
    > Surgery and Journal of Orthopaedic Research.
    >
    > >2) I also didn't find any reference in which the tendon was tied in a
    > >knot.
    > >Could someone give me a reason why not to use this method? (aside from
    > >the possibility of rupture of the tendon in the area of the knot because
    > >of breakdown of fibbers) .
    >
    > If you look at the above references you will find ways to tensile test that
    > do NOT include tying a knot. Clamps can be constructed that will firmly
    > grasp a tendon to perform a tensile test and achieve ultimate loads of over
    > 500 N while failing in the midsubstance.
    >
    > -Serena Chan Saw
    >
    >

    On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, Liduin Meershoek wrote:
    >
    > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:22:40 +0200
    > From: Liduin Meershoek
    > To: bmesver@techunix.technion.ac.il
    > Subject: Re: Gripping digital dog tendons with a knot in a conic hole?
    >
    > Dear Arik,
    >
    > Digital tendon testing was done repeatedly on horse tendons. I have included
    > some references. By the way, I don't know how your search the literature but
    > a lot of the veterinarian research is not included in medline.
    >
    > A few months ago there was a question on clamping of tendons or ligaments.
    > There were some references on fixation, you should search the Biomech-L
    > archives for this. Knotting the tendon might 'lock' the internal structure
    > of the tendon in different way compared to normal loading. I don't know
    > whether this gives a large influence on the results.
    >
    > MO Jansen & HHCM Savelberg. Stress and strain of equine tendons of the
    > forelimb at failure. Equine Vet J suppl 17;1994:57-60
    >
    > CK Becker, HHCM Savelberg & A Barneveld. In vitro mechanical properties of
    > the accessory ligament of the deep digital flexor tendon in relation to age.
    > Equine Vet J 26;1994, 454-459.
    >
    > DJ Riemersma & HC Schamhardt. In vitro mechanical properties of equine
    > tendons in relation to cross sectional area and collagen contant. Res Vet S
    > 39;1985 263-270
    >
    > N Crevier, P Pourcelot JM Denoix, D Geider, C Bortolussi, X Ribot & M Sanaa.
    > Segmental variations of in vitro mechanical properties in equine superficial
    > digital flexor tendons. Am J Vet Res 57;1996, 1111-1117
    >
    > FK Lochnet, DW Milne, EJ Mills & JJ Groom. In vivo and in vitro measurements
    > of tendon strain in the horse. Am J Vet Res 41, 1980, 1929-1938.
    >
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