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Knee markers falling off during fast running

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  • Knee markers falling off during fast running

    We motion capture running gait and still struggle with knee and tibia reflective markers falling off during prolonged trials that elicit perspiration. Our trials are long (over 60 sec) and our research in the future will include non-linear questions that require long data sets.

    After trying a plethora of double-sided tape, we need a better solution. Brain stormed possibilities:

    Kinesiotape (expensive)
    Provide full length tights to the subjects (sanitation issues)
    Knee sleeve or cycling knee warmers (fewer sanitation issues, still possibility of slight movement)
    Athletic wrap (good, but sometimes pinches popliteal fossa, can be expensive)
    Crazy glue (best, but ethical issues!)

    Suggestions?

  • #2
    Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

    Hi Tim,
    I use TufSkin -- which is a tape adherent. It is cheap, a can lasts a long time, and can be found in any sports medicine supply catalog. I found great results when I needed help keeping markers on during fast-pitch softball pitching. Its only negative is that it is not sweat-proof. It will lose holding ability as a subject begins to sweat heavily. I also keep a bottle of tape remover (also cheap and long-lasting) in my data collection kit. Once the subject is finished, I will wipe the areas with the tape remover to get rid of any excess TufSkin. It doesn't smell great but it gets the job done and is easy on the skin.

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    • #3
      Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

      Hi Tim,

      We've found that using quick-drying adhesive (QDA) spray before placing markers with double-sided tape works quite well for holding markers on even when subjects sweat. You can get it through most PT suppliers. I think Cramer is the most common brand name you'll see. It can make people pretty sticky, but we rarely have markers flying off when we use the spray, even throughout 30+ minute fatiguing runs.

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      • #4
        Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

        Hi Tim-
        I've had good luck with TufSkin, double-sided tape on markers, vet-tape, and athletic tape. I've also encouraged subjects to not use lotion prior to trials, which seems to help with the adhesive.
        Best of luck,
        Alena

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        • #5
          Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

          Tim:
          I used a fairly extensive, and therein sweaty exercise protocol for my dissertation and used a combination of solutions/steps prior to any exercise beginning: 1) clean and shave, 2) spray anti-perspirant - let dry for a few minutes, 3) QDA/tufskin (as suggested by previous), 4) the strongest double-sided tape I could find, 5) if possible let sit for a few minutes prior to starting exercise as this seemed to help with adhesion over the long-term.
          Best of luck.

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          • #6
            Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

            Tim, I was just looking into adhesives for another application, here are a couple of ideas in addition to those already suggested:

            1-double sided hair tape (toupee tape) such as 3M 1522 holds fairly well. Some of this underneath with some Kendall Wet-pruf on top might do it.
            2-Kendall Wet-pruf waterproof tape (split it down the middle and place it over and around marker).
            3-1 drop of super glue underneath (twists right off) maybe with Kendall on top. If there is ethical resistance with super glue, there is also some rubber cement like adhesive (e.g. Uro-Bond 1V 5000) made for medical applications that might be better received (mostly because it comes in medical packaging), but I think you have to use adhesive remover to get the residue off the skin.
            4-bone pins (just kidding about that one).

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            • #7
              Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

              Hi Tim,

              After similar problems, I (and others I work with) have settled on taping the markers on with "Cover-Roll Stretch." It works so well we've taken to just calling it "the good tape".


              This is one-sided tape, so you still have to use the double-sided tape first, then use Cover-Roll Stretch to tape over the marker's attachment base

              -Peter

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              • #8
                Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

                Tim,

                I have found that ECG Electrode Tape works perfectly around markers on/around joints. We purchased a few thousand about 6 years ago and I believe it was from the following company (there is a picture of the tape on the bottom of this link under "Transparent Adhesive")


                Scott

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                • #9
                  Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

                  Tim,

                  I have to agree with Dustin about using a dot of superglue. Superglue/Crazyglue is very strong in tenson but not in torsion so the markers twist right off. Just make sure you are not using it over an area with hair. I've found it to be very helpful for keeping markers on a multisegment foot configuration. Also, to prevent you from having to scrape superglue off your markers, use a piece of tape on the backs of the markers, as well. Toupee tape alone works very well (holds even better when used with TufSkin, as several have suggested) but will not hold for long when subjects start to perspire.

                  Best of luck,
                  Elizabeth

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                  • #10
                    Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

                    I agree with Elizabeth and Dustin. I have found that Superglue is by far the best. The markers never fall off when applied correctly (no more than 2 drops and pressed to the skin for at least 3-4 seconds).
                    Good luck.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

                      I've also had good luck with the super-glue option. Most of it seems to end up on the marker rather than the skin upon removal. I've never found a tape that holds up well under sweaty conditions.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

                        Thanks everybody for your useful comments. I was actually joking when I mentioned superglue, so I was surprised to receive this as a serious suggestion. However, those who have related their experience with it have provided assurance that it is in fact not an inappropriate option. We will definitely consider it.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Knee markers falling off during fast running

                          Only 1 thing needed here...surgifix.

                          Apply over your marker clusters and it keeps it compressed.

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