EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

[Kevin Mo]

Can anyone explain me please what is the difference of these models in term of features and price?

It seems that the 320 model can be used with other sensors therefore I can't understand the difference between 320 and 320s.
How can we link sensors to the 320 and the 320S transmitters? I can't see any site to plug the sensors.

How the 320 system is connected to a PC without the Vicon Analog box? Working in conjunction with the Vicon system is good but I need to be able to use only the EMG system and I can't see how to link the receiver unit to the PC (paralel port?). Additionally I need to know if I can use the ProEMG software thru the Vicon plug-in when I am using the EMG system without the cameras connected.


Any help would be appreciated.

[Lasse Roren]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Can anyone explain me please what is the difference of these models in term of features and price?

It seems that the 320 model can be used with other sensors therefore I can't understand the difference between 320 and 320s.
How can we link sensors to the 320 and the 320S transmitters? I can't see any site to plug the sensors.

How the 320 system is connected to a PC without the Vicon Analog box? Working in conjunction with the Vicon system is good but I need to be able to use only the EMG system and I can't see how to link the receiver unit to the PC (paralel port?). Additionally I need to know if I can use the ProEMG software thru the Vicon plug-in when I am using the EMG system without the cameras connected.


Any help would be appreciated.

Hi Kevin,

The main reason for the two separate systems is medical certification. The 320 is a medically certified product for the measurement of EMG, whereas the 320S is for other sensors such as goniometers, accelerometers and foot switches. The two can be connected to the same PC, at which point they function together as one synchronized system, or they can be used separately. The sensors automatically connect to the receiver, and they use the same charging stations, so the only practical implication is that someone using the two systems together will have two receiver boxes working in parallel, one for EMG and one for other measurements.

The 320/320S systems with analog output can be connected, as you say, through the Vicon Analog card in the GigaNet. However, you can also connect the analog output to stand-alone analog-to-digital cards such as the ones from National Instruments, which are cost effective and of high quality. These cards are available both as PCI cards that you can build into your desktop PC, or as stand-alone cards that connect via USB. The simplest solution would be to wire one cable into the Vicon patch panel and another to a National Instruments card and simply plug the cable you need for your particular measurement into the receiver.

The proEMG software has a stand-alone version as well as a plug-in version. The stand-alone integrates with the National Instruments cards, and thus lets you record data from the 320/320S without going through the Vicon system or software. However, you can also record EMG signals through the Vicon software and process the data with the proEMG plug-in even if you don't record camera data - simply uncheck the "MX Camera Data" option in Vicon Nexus to record analog data only.

Hope this helps!

[Kevin Mo]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Thank you for the answer Lasse Roren.

After this clarification, and with additional information that a colleague has provided (and supposing the information is correct) it seems that the acquisition of this system is not justifiable, the reasons are:

1 - Much more expensive (almost double) than other competing products of similar quality (e.g. Delsys)

2 - The supposed advantage of integration with the Vicon system seems more of a disadvantage than an advantage, but let's see:
We can only use the EMG if it is connected to the vicon system which invalidates the collecting of data without the Vicon system:

If we want to collect EMG data without the Vicon system we have to:
- Acquire new hardware (a new board and more costs)
- Acquire a new software if we have the plug-in (proEMG stand-alone and more cost)

Any other EMG equipment comes with the software and via a simple synchronization can work with several kinematic and kinetic equipment.

Who buys the myon system is not entitled to use the system independently of the Vicon system without incurring in more costs? How do you justify the high cost of this system compared to its competitors and still present’s limitations for those who buy the system for use in conjunction with the Vicon system?

What seems reasonable for me is that the stand-alone myon system be provided in order to function autonomously. And when needed a plug-in is provided without charge to work with other systems since the one who buy the system already have the proEMG stand-alone version.

Lasse I'm missing something here and my rational is wrong? We need to weigh the pro and cons before buying the EMG system, therefore, any enlightenment would be appreciated.

[Heiner Baur]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

-You get the analog signals from the Myon system via a "parallel port connector" (25-pins). From there you can use any A/D-card to transfer the signals to your PC. We use A/D cards from National Instruments (we also use a LabView-based software for signal recording).
-ProEMG: You can buy either the plug-in for Nexus or a separate package. The price is the same as far as I know. If you want to use only the EMG-system, you can use ProEMG (separate package) plus an A/D-card from NI and you are ready to go. The NI-A/D-card gives you the possibility to collect additional analog signals.

[Lasse Roren]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Hi Kevin,

I cannot comment on your particular case as I do not know who you are, where you are based or where you got your pricing information from, but in general the cost of a myon 320 EMG system is competitive. Please feel free to contact me directly for more information.

The proEMG software can be purchased in the "full suite" version which includes both the stand-alone (for data capture with the National Instruments cards) and the plug-in version (for data capture through Vicon Nexus). Yes, you do need a separate A-to-D board if you wish to capture independently from the Vicon system, but these are normally very cost effective. You then have the following options:
1) Capture EMG data synchronously with Vicon data, and do all the processing using Vicon Nexus through the proEMG plug-in.
2) Capture and process EMG data (and other devices you may wish to connect) independently through the National Instruments A-to-D card using proEMG.
3) Capture and process EMG data through any A-to-D card using any recording software that integrates with the card.

The major advantages with the Vicon system integration is that the system has a fixed latency, which means accurate synchronization, and that you can do advanced EMG processing from within the Vicon Nexus software - in other words, you don't have to export the data from Nexus and import it into another package.

[Kevin Mo]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Thank you for the answers. I am now a little more enlightened and probably the info that I get before was not too much accurately and for that I apologize.

Nevertheless I think that the fixed latency is not an advantage of the Vicon system integration because without the Vicon system we can have the same fixed latency or not (i.e. with the proEMG stand-alone)? If this is the case I don't see it as an advantage, moreover other systems also claim a fixed latency.

My point is that other high quality systems (like delsys and Noraxon) not only allow this integration with the vicon system but they are sold as one full functional system (software and hardware) that can be connected digitally via USB with kinematic systems. This approach seems more reasonable for me.

What I think that can constitute a true advantage is beside to provide a fully functional EMG system the myon company add a plug-in that allows to work within the kinematic software provided from Vicon. This is what can distinguish the myon company from its competitors.

In addition to the above, if the plug-in already allows the EMG data to be processed in the same way as the proEmg stand-alone why not include the stand-alone software for customers who acquire the plug-in or vice-versa? By charging for the stand-alone version what could be a competitive advantage ceases to be. I think that most if not all clarified consumers will probably prefer to have the proEmg stand-alone version plus the myon system (without the Vicon analog integration) because in this way they will be able to work with EMG system with and without the Vicon system. Acquire the plug-in version put serious restrictions in the use of the EMG system.I think this type of equipment are too expensive to have such restrictions on their use.

Dear Lasse Roren can you clarify please if what Heiner Baur said is true. We can "...buy either the plug-in for Nexus or a separate package (proEMG) for the same price?

[Lasse Roren]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

The two versions of the proEMG software - the plug-in for Nexus and the stand-alone version - do indeed cost the same when bought separately. However, the "full suite" package means that you get a significant reduction when you buy them together. It is true that the processing and reporting capabilities of the two versions are the same, but since the integration and data recording capabilities are different, and since many customers only require one of the two, we decided to offer the plug-in and stand-alone versions at reduced prices instead of always selling the entire package.

If your system has fixed and known latency, the Vicon Nexus software lets you enter this latency and automatically compensate for it when recording the data, thus bringing the EMG data in full sync with the 3D. Of course, for a stand-alone system this doesn't really matter. However, if you want to analyze marker data together with the EMG, and to use gait events (foot strike & toe off) to normalize your EMG data, then I would argue that the known, fixed latency is a major advantage.

Best regards,

[Kevin Mo]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Dear Lasse Roren,

Is possible to use your system with other motion capture systems like Qualisys? If so there is also a plug-in for this system? If not how can we sincronize the two systems?
And as you mentione before if we whant to analyze marker data together with the EMG, and to use gait events (foot strike & toe off) to normalize EMG data how can we doi it?

kind regards,
Kevin Mo

[Kevin Mo]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Dear Lasse Roren,

Is possible to use your system with other motion capture systems like Qualisys? If so there is also a plug-in for this system? If not how can we sincronize the two systems?
And as you mentione before if we want to analyze marker data together with the EMG, and to use gait events (foot strike & toe off) to normalize EMG data how can we do it?

kind regards,
Kevin Mo

[Lasse Roren]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Dear Kevin,

It is indeed possible to use the myon 320/320S systems with Qualisys or other non-Vicon motion capture systems that have the option of collecting analog signals together with 3D data. The synchronization is then handled by the end-user software supplied by the manufacturer. As long as the manufacturer's software also supports the C3D file format, you can use the proEMG standalone software to analyse the signals by simply importing the C3D file.

[Kevin Mo]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Dear Kevin,

It is indeed possible to use the myon 320/320S systems with Qualisys or other non-Vicon motion capture systems that have the option of collecting analog signals together with 3D data. The synchronization is then handled by the end-user software supplied by the manufacturer. As long as the manufacturer's software also supports the C3D file format, you can use the proEMG standalone software to analyse the signals by simply importing the C3D file.

Thank you for the response. What do you mean with "The synchronization is then handled by the end-user software supplied by the manufacturer..."?

There is any hardware option that can be used to send a pulse and synchronize the motion capture system and/or reversal?

[Lasse Roren]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

The myon system outputs analog signals that are then fed into the analog input of the motion capture system. The myon system has a fixed 16ms latency, so as long as the motion capture system is able to record analog data synchronized with the 3D data (which is handled by the manufacturer's software, please contact the relevant manufacturer for more information), you will be able to record synchronized data.

[Scott Dueball]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Kevin,

You might consider taking a look at The MotionMonitor. In this package, data from multiple sources (most major mocap options, EMG, force plates, etc) are synchronously collected. Plus each source can also be collected stand-alone (i.e. only EMG). Gait events can also be automatically identified and data reduction can be performed within the software program. I think that addresses all of your questions above. You can also import/export C3D files with this software. Most important to my use is that company (IST) is super easy to work with (in my experience, you can't put a price on that). Check it out: www.TheMotionMonitor.com

Scott

[Scott Dueball]

Re: EMG Myon 320 Vs 320S

Kevin,

You might consider taking a look at The MotionMonitor. In this package, data from multiple sources (most major mocap options, EMG, force plates, etc) are synchronously collected. Plus each source can also be collected stand-alone (i.e. only EMG). Gait events can also be automatically identified and data reduction can be performed within the software program. I think that addresses all of your questions above. You can also import/export C3D files with this software. Most important to my use is that company (IST) is super easy to work with (in my experience, you can't put a price on that). Check it out: www.TheMotionMonitor.com

Scott