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Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

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  • Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

    First off please let me thank you for your time, and I will try to keep this as brief as possible. I am a Physical Therapist who is working on trying to finalize a dissertation topic for my Doctor of Health Sciences (DHSc) from the University of St Augustine- Florida. I will be taking my written comprehensives at the end of November.


    I have a keen clinical interest in the area of bicycle fitting and would like to pursue research in this area. My current idea for a question looks at the comparing methods for determining reach, the traditional method versus a method based off of anthropometric measures.


    While I have help and mentorship on the clinical side, I have run into an issue as this is the Physical Therapist and Bicycle Fitters business. They are reluctant to send a client away with a bicycle fit for which they are not comfortable, as this may jeopardize their business name, and there is also the issue of time and money. Both issues I understand and do not fault them for their reservations.


    I am looking for some guidance from someone on the research side who has experience in this area. The DHSc program that I am in is a distance program, I live in Seattle, and the professors at the University of St Augustine are not working or have expertise in the area of bicycle fitting. The help that I hope to get does not have to be face-to-face, email or phone would be perfectly fine.


    At this point, I have developed a question that would work around the clinician's issues by just comparing the reach the fitter determines versus one based on the same client's anthropometric data. If a correlation is found, I would then run a regression to develop an equation.


    I am looking for feedback on this question. Or possibly guidance on developing a stronger question based on knowledge and experience in this area with the understanding of my current constraints.


    If you have experience and the time or know of someone who has experience in this area and may be willing to give some of their time, it would be greatly appreciated.


    Again, I appreciate your time,


    Kurt Williams PT, DPT, MS, DHSc Student

  • #2
    Re: Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

    Hi Kurt

    Coincidently, I have just had a paper published in JERG on this very topic, but focussed entirely on children, and focussing on reach and rise. There are many cans of worms you will open when you start looking into this, but based on our research, there is very little in the literature regarding reach and rise - or at least any researched methods for producing a reliable reach and rise.

    Here is a link to my paper, which I hope will give you a few thoughts and pointers.



    I'd be more than happy to discuss the study with your.

    Best of luck with your study

    Karl Grainger
    Brunel University

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

      Hi Kurt,
      I would be happy to talk with you. I am a PT researcher also doing some cycling biomechanics research. I have started comparing what cyclistd come in with to settings that are determined based on anthropometrics and joint angles. I am a cyclist myself and have spoken with bike fitters in the area. One even referred someone to me.
      Therese Johnston
      therese.johnston@jefferson.edu

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

        Originally posted by karl_grainger View Post
        Hi Kurt

        Coincidently, I have just had a paper published in JERG on this very topic, but focussed entirely on children, and focussing on reach and rise. There are many cans of worms you will open when you start looking into this, but based on our research, there is very little in the literature regarding reach and rise - or at least any researched methods for producing a reliable reach and rise.

        Here is a link to my paper, which I hope will give you a few thoughts and pointers.



        I'd be more than happy to discuss the study with you.

        Best of luck with your study

        Karl Grainger
        Brunel University
        Dr. Grainger,
        Thanks for your and fellow researchers article. I had seen the citation for your article a month ago but was unable to find the article itself. The library though it was a ghost reference.

        You are correct that there is a lack of research on the subject of reach and bicycle fitting in general. I have struggled with this issue while trying to develop a question.

        One question with my first reading is; Why did you use the percentage of trochanteric height vs. knee flexion?

        I would appreciate further discussion.

        Kurt

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

          Hello Kurt,

          I am also in Seattle, and have a good friend working as a PT doing bike fitting. One of my committee members is also a faculty in Rehab Medicine at UW, and has some background in cycling too. If you'd like, send me a message about getting in contact with them.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

            Originally posted by jeff.rob.campbell View Post
            Hello Kurt,

            I am also in Seattle, and have a good friend working as a PT doing bike fitting. One of my committee members is also a faculty in Rehab Medicine at UW, and has some background in cycling too. If you'd like, send me a message about getting in contact with them.

            Jeff,
            I would be interested in contacting your PT friend as I will need help from fitters as I am no current in the clinic.

            I have been getting some help from Dr. Kevin McQuade at the UW. He is friends with and old employer and PT-Fitter who I am getting assistance from on this project. I have been keeping him in the loop on the project, and he, fortunately, has been giving great ideas and feedback to someone who is not his student.

            Kurt

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

              Dear Kurt

              Firstly thanks for my promotion! I'm still working on my PhD, so not quite a Dr - yet.

              As for your question, a very valid one, and one I wish I'd answered for myself when I started the research. It does seem that the leg length (trochanteric height or inseam - which was the one I used), has started to move out of favour, and be replaced by the knee angle.

              The leg length is a good starting point, but has many issues, the main one I see is how the cyclist plantar/dorsiflexes when they ride, which can have a big impact on knee flexion angle.

              However, having said that, in our study the leg length (inseam) did work well, and as you will have seen from the R2 value is good at predicting seat height. It is also fairly simple to measure.

              Knee angle does seem to be the more 'approved' way know of finding seat height, however, it is not that easy to measure, you would either need to be really proficient with your goniometer, or alternatively require markers plus a camera/motion capture system of some sort.

              Hope that answers your question.

              Karl

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

                Hi Kurt,

                I have done some work on bicycling with knee OA in my dissertation research. I standardized bike fit for all participants and found a book by Edmund Burke called High-tech Cycling to be very helpful. You may already be familiar with this book but if you're not it is worth checking out. I also used knee angle to determine seat height and I don't think it needs to be as complicated as has been suggested. A simple goniometer will do the trick. I would be happy to discuss my methods further if you are interested.

                Here is an amazon link to Edmund Burke's book: https://www.amazon.com/High-Tech-Cyc.../dp/0736045074.

                Jake Gardner
                Biola University

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Guidance with Bicycle Fitting Dissertation

                  Originally posted by karl_grainger View Post
                  Dear Kurt

                  Firstly thanks for my promotion! I'm still working on my PhD, so not quite a Dr - yet.

                  As for your question, a very valid one, and one I wish I'd answered for myself when I started the research. It does seem that the leg length (trochanteric height or inseam - which was the one I used), has started to move out of favour, and be replaced by the knee angle.

                  The leg length is a good starting point, but has many issues, the main one I see is how the cyclist plantar/dorsiflexes when they ride, which can have a big impact on knee flexion angle.

                  However, having said that, in our study the leg length (inseam) did work well, and as you will have seen from the R2 value is good at predicting seat height. It is also fairly simple to measure.

                  Knee angle does seem to be the more 'approved' way know of finding seat height, however, it is not that easy to measure, you would either need to be really proficient with your goniometer, or alternatively require markers plus a camera/motion capture system of some sort.

                  Hope that answers your question.

                  Karl
                  Karl,
                  Better to call you doctor than insult you with no recognition of title.

                  In my experience with reading, classes, and conferences I have seen the exclusive use of knee angle for saddle height. The literature seems to feel that it better controls for possible different crank lengths.

                  At a recent conference and course, the speakers discussed the trend to shorter crank arms to decrease knee shear forces and particularly to make fitting into the aero position easier.

                  Thank You for your feedback,

                  Kurt

                  Comment

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