Biomechanics community in Discord

[Jere Lavikainen]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I'm convinced that Discord doesn't meet the criteria for being a replacement for Biomch-L. I hope a suitable forum platform for that purpose is found.
I think a Discord server (or another similar service) would still be a useful addition to the community.

Dear colleagues!

Thank you for bringing this discussion to Biomch-L! This forum has been a fantastic space for engagement, knowledge exchange, and building new professional connections.
It’s great to see the community actively exchanging thoughts and working together to strengthen interactions among its members. As Ton mentioned, the Biomch-L moderators and ISB are exploring the possibilities and will definitely take into account everything mentioned in this thread. As Ton pointed out, if Biomch-L migrates to another platform (such as Reddit), that doesn’t mean other options shouldn’t exist. There are numerous possibilities, and depending on the objectives, different platforms may offer better engagement and utility.

It’s also worth noting that some platforms and communication tools are more commonly used in certain parts of the world than in others. That’s why I agree that conducting a survey among members could be a great way to understand their preferences, and we (ISB) can definitely facilitate this through our newsletter, ISB Now.


Felipe Carpes

A survey would be great!

[Felipe Carpes]

Dear colleagues!

Thank you for bringing this discussion to Biomch-L! This forum has been a fantastic space for engagement, knowledge exchange, and building new professional connections.
It’s great to see the community actively exchanging thoughts and working together to strengthen interactions among its members. As Ton mentioned, the Biomch-L moderators and ISB are exploring the possibilities and will definitely take into account everything mentioned in this thread. As Ton pointed out, if Biomch-L migrates to another platform (such as Reddit), that doesn’t mean other options shouldn’t exist. There are numerous possibilities, and depending on the objectives, different platforms may offer better engagement and utility.

It’s also worth noting that some platforms and communication tools are more commonly used in certain parts of the world than in others. That’s why I agree that conducting a survey among members could be a great way to understand their preferences, and we (ISB) can definitely facilitate this through our newsletter, ISB Now.


Felipe Carpes

[Tomer Yona]

Another possible option is a WhatsApp community.
Maybe the ISB can facilitate some survey on its members preferences?

[Jason K. Moore]

Open (and possibly public) real time chat options are Zulip and Matrix.

A modern open forum option is Discourse: https://www.discourse.org/

[Ton van den Bogert]

Thanks, everyone, for these thoughts.

We (the Biomch-L moderators and ISB) definitely want to keep a forum-style medium. Content should be archived and searchable. The current forum system (this one) is hard to use and hard to maintain. Consequently, activity has declined. Biomch-L could become a forum on Reddit.

But that doesn't mean there should not be anything else. The capabilities and communication style of Discord is dramatically different, and I don't see the two as being in competition. I encourage the development of such initiatives. You just won't see me there... ISB might still support it, but I can't speak for ISB.

Ton van den Bogert
ISB co-moderator

[David Pagnon]

Based on this, I would say that Telegram is between Discord and forums, which is either good if we want to get rid of the forum completely, but most likely offering the worst of both worlds.

Also, and this is not broached in the AI answer, I like the possibility of adding or creating bots to the server. For example, I use one to move messages from one channel to another, to create polls, to schedule messages, but there are tons of others: see this video, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5nVv_2JePc

[Tomer Yona]

Here is some Ai made comparison of Telegram and Discord. Some good points here:



For a biomechanics community looking to replace a traditional forum with a modern platform, both Discord and Telegram offer unique advantages and drawbacks. Below is a detailed comparison of the two platforms, focusing on their main differences, pros, and cons in the context of facilitating community discussions, particularly for a specialized group like biomechanics.

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Main Differences

1. Primary Focus and Structure
   • Discord: Originally designed for gamers, Discord is a platform centered on real-time communication through voice, video, and text channels. Discussions are organized into "servers," which can contain multiple channels for different topics, creating a hub-like structure.
   • Telegram: A messaging app focused on speed, security, and large group capabilities, Telegram offers "groups" for interactive discussions and "channels" for broadcasting information. Its structure is more linear, resembling a chat room or broadcast feed.
2. Communication Style
   • Discord: Excels in real-time voice and video communication alongside text-based discussions, making it suitable for live meetings or collaborative sessions.
   • Telegram: Emphasizes text-based, asynchronous messaging with support for voice and video calls, better suited for ongoing written discussions.
3. Discussion Organization
   • Discord: Uses a server-channel model to categorize discussions by topic, though it lacks the nested, threaded structure of traditional forums.
   • Telegram: Features linear discussions in groups, with replies to specific messages possible but no deep threading, which can complicate complex conversations.
4. Search and Information Retrieval
   • Discord: Has search functionality, but it’s less effective in large servers with many messages, making it harder to find specific information.
   • Telegram: Offers robust search capabilities, allowing users to easily locate past messages, files, and links—a key advantage for referencing discussions.
5. File Sharing and Media
   • Discord: Allows file uploads up to 8MB for free users (100MB for Nitro subscribers) and supports embedding media and links.
   • Telegram: Supports sharing files up to 2GB (4GB for premium users), ideal for distributing research papers or datasets.
6. Community Features and Moderation
   • Discord: Provides extensive tools like role-based permissions, moderation bots, and customizable settings for managing large communities.
   • Telegram: Offers basic moderation (e.g., admin roles, banning users) but lacks Discord’s advanced permission systems and bot integrations.
7. Privacy and Security
   • Discord: Lacks end-to-end encryption, which may concern users discussing sensitive topics, though it offers strong server-level security.
   • Telegram: Provides end-to-end encryption only in "Secret Chats" (not groups or channels), with a reputation for prioritizing privacy but not default encryption for all communications.

---

Pros and Cons
Discord
Pros:

• Real-time Communication: Ideal for live discussions, virtual meetings, or collaborative sessions via voice and video—useful for biomechanics events like Q&As or conferences.
• Community Building: Customizable servers with roles, permissions, and bots make it easy to manage and grow a community.
• Integrations: Supports bots and integrations (e.g., scheduling, polling, GitHub) to enhance functionality.
• Structured Channels: Topic-specific channels help organize discussions, though not as hierarchically as forums.

Cons:

• Search Limitations: Finding specific information can be difficult in busy servers due to less effective search tools.
• File Size Restrictions: Free users are capped at 8MB uploads, potentially insufficient for large research files.
• Learning Curve: The server-channel setup may confuse users accustomed to traditional forums.
• Privacy Concerns: No end-to-end encryption could be a drawback for sensitive discussions.

Telegram
Pros:

• Large File Sharing: Supports files up to 2GB (4GB for premium), perfect for sharing research papers, datasets, or multimedia.
• Strong Search Functionality: Easy retrieval of past messages and files, critical for referencing biomechanics discussions.
• Simplicity: A straightforward, messaging-app-like interface that’s intuitive for new users.
• Security Focus: Offers end-to-end encryption in Secret Chats and a privacy-oriented reputation.

Cons:

• Linear Discussions: Lacks threaded conversations, making complex or in-depth discussions harder to follow.
• Limited Community Features: Fewer tools for moderation and community management compared to Discord.
• Broadcast vs. Discussion: Channels focus on broadcasting rather than interactive discussion, limiting forum-like interaction.
• Encryption Limitations: End-to-end encryption isn’t available in groups or channels, only in Secret Chats.

---

Which is Better for a Biomechanics Community?
The best choice depends on the biomechanics community’s priorities:

• Choose Discord if:
  • Real-time voice or video discussions are key (e.g., virtual conferences, live research collaboration).
  • Structured channels and advanced moderation tools are needed for organization and management.
  • Integrations with tools like scheduling or project management are valuable.
• Choose Telegram if:
  • Text-based, asynchronous discussions with easy access to past content are the focus.
  • Sharing large files (e.g., research papers, datasets) is a frequent need.
  • A simple, intuitive interface is preferred for less tech-savvy members.

For a biomechanics community, where sharing detailed research and referencing past discussions are likely priorities, Telegram may edge out slightly due to its superior search functionality and large file-sharing capabilities. However, if the group values live events or needs robust community management, Discord could be the better fit. Ultimately, the decision hinges on whether the community prioritizes real-time engagement (Discord) or asynchronous, research-focused communication (Telegram).

[Jere Lavikainen]

It sounds like Ton and possibly Jason are looking for something publicly accessible and relatively slow-paced, while the proposal to create a Discord server is for more casual and immediate communication for registered users. In other words, we might not be discussing the solution to the same problem. If so, I can easily see the solutions to these two problems coexisting because they cater to different needs.

I encourage Ton to elaborate the reasons for looking an alternative to Biomch-L and Jason to name some of those open alternatives to real time chatting, so we can better discuss this in detail.

As for the Telegram suggestion, I'm not familiar with Telegram but if it provides the same features as the other options, I don't see why not.

[David Pagnon]

These are good points. I haven't looked deep into it but commenting now to feed the conversation:
- Concerning the public archives to make it Google searchable, I just came across Linen.dev. Not sure how good it is but it is worth having a look: https://www.linen.dev.
"Linen syncs your Slack and Discord threads to an SEO friendly website that allows your community to discover you through search engines and reduces the number of repeat questions." --> Edit: Just realized that it is not free at all so it may not be the best option
- Asynchronous discussions can be somewhat done with Discord threads (same idea as with Reddit): https://support.cci.drexel.edu/getti...scord-threads/

Discord might not be the best solution and I'm very open to any other idea, but I feel like forums do not foster live discussions (anymore), and you cannot easily create a new thread to answer a point in the middle of the discussion. Plus, to be honest, I've never landed on the Biomech-L forum (nor on the OpenSim one, nor any others) from a Google search, because it is really not that well referenced.

[Jason K. Moore]

Discord is a bad choice because it is not a publicly archival and searchable source. A forum allows for public searching of information and it is asynchronous so that posts can be made in slow time. I would caution using Discord as it is very much subject to the company's control. There are open alternatives to real time chat that can be publicly archived and searched.

[David Pagnon]

From what I see, Telegram is good for broadcasting news, but less for chatting among members. From everything I see on the internet, people seem to favor Discord for such projects.

I'm the one who suggested Reddit to Jere, but after further digging, I'm more convinced with Discord (which I use every day, including for professional purposes).

[Tomer Yona]

I would also consider Telegram community as another option

[Jere Lavikainen]

Hi Ton,

Thanks for the reply!
A colleague of mine suggested Reddit to me just this week, and I use it, so I'll share my thoughts on it since I already wrote them down once to the colleague:

• It has a nice post structure, where there's the main post and you can leave comments under it. You can leave subcomments under each comment, and subsubcomments under subcomments, and so forth, so branching discussions are naturally organized in a hierarchical structure.
• It functionally has forums (subreddits), with topics (posts) and posts under the topics (comments).
• It has a post rating system where you can upvote or downvote posts and comments. More upvoted posts are by default organized at the top of the subreddit (and upvoted comments at the top just under the main post), and downvoted content in turn gets reduced visibility and exposure. User accounts keep track of the user's total "karma" or sum of upvotes minus downvotes. This results in "karma farming", where users write comments and posts with the goal to have as many upvotes as possible (e.g., with a funny joke or a publicly favoured opinion) rather than writing the content with quality or meaningful contribution. The upvote/downvote system is also allegedly used by real and bot users to affect what kind of content is seen on the frontpage of subreddits. The flaws of this system, in my opinion, do not make it a very favourable place for biomechanics discussion.
• At least on mobile, advertisements appear among the list of posts and are formatted similarly, making it easy to accidentally click an advertisement. I'm not sure if this is present on desktop, but it's a little annoying and gives the platform a commercial feel.
• You can set moderators in a subreddit, but ultimately the Reddit corporation will step in to moderate if they feel the need to. Your subreddit is still hosted and ultimately controlled by Reddit. This probably wouldn't be an issue in a biomechanics related subreddit, but should be acknowledged.
• Reddit users can view each others' post and comment history in all of Reddit, so if you use other subreddits than just the biomechanics one and don't want people you interact with there see what those other subreddits are and what you've posted in them, you'd have to make a separate Reddit user account for the biomechanics subreddit.

Discord, on the other hand:

• Not a forum but a chat service for instant messaging and voiceover, originally created for video gamers. You can create servers for different topics (e.g., biomechanics). Servers can have an arbitrary number of voice and text channels (e.g., "msk-modeling", "cartilage-biomechanics"). On voice channels you can also share video. It has lots of forum-like functionalities: you can pin messages on channels, assign moderators, control user groups that can see or post on specific channels, and search content.
• As a chat service, it is more immediate and possibly more informal than Reddit, so might not be what you're looking for if you want to replace Biomch-L.
• It doesn't have a similar hierarchical message structure per se as Reddit, but you can create threads inside text channels that function like forum threads.
• You can assign bots to your server to handle tasks and run macros with text-based commands. You probably could use them to set up some kind of professional status verification pipeline, for instance by automatically assigning a "verified user" tag to people who use their email to confirm their identity and that way giving them access to "members-only" channels.
• You see what servers you share with other users of the server, but you can't access their post history unless you're on the same server. So keeping your work and hobby servers separate from the public eye is simpler than with Reddit.
• You have to install Discord and make Discord user account to join the server and see its content, whereas you can browse Reddit without an account on your browser. Therefore, anyone cannot unfortunately read the content of Discord servers whenever.

I'm obviously biased towards Discord, but maybe you can get something of value out of these points.

[Ton van den Bogert]

Hi Jere,

Thank you so much for your suggestion. I had never heard of Discord, but will explore and see what it's like.

The Biomch-L moderators and ISB have recently been talking also about an alternative or replacement for the current Biomch-L forum, for several reasons.

We were looking at Reddit. Reddit already has a biomechanics forum, but the content is not very good, with many examples of "blind leading the blind". We would create a new forum that requires some (loosely defined) professional status in order to join, exactly like we do on this forum. Anyone can always read the content, of course.

We should definitely coordinate, otherwise we may end up with multiple communities.

And thank you so much for volunteering to help with Discord. If you want to follow up privately, contact me at a.vandenbogert@csuohio.edu.

Ton van den Bogert
Biomch-L co-moderator

[Jere Lavikainen]

Hi!

I’m wondering if there’s a Discord server dedicated to biomechanics, either “official” ISB-run or otherwise. It would be great to have an informal but easy-to-use venue for conversations about biomechanics, from chitchat to proper discussions. We have the Biomch-L forums, but their function is designed more for slow-paced discussions. Therefore, I think Discord would fill an important niche in networking and communication about biomechanics.

Discord functions similarly to online forums in the sense that you have a registered account which you can use to discuss matters divided under various sections and topics. You can easily search for previous posts by their content to see if a particular topic has already been discussed. However, in addition to that, Discord is a chat service, making it faster to access and check than online forums, and allowing for more casual conversations and immediate communication, like quick questions or discussing ideas that you wouldn’t necessarily create a forum post for. Moreover, Discord has built-in functionality for voice and video chats and screen sharing, so if you’re in the middle of an online conversation and need to show something on your screen or lab or just want to speak rather than write, all that’s doable effortlessly.

I think Discord would also be useful in reaching the younger generation of biomechanists, since many already use it to communicate and have it installed on their computer or phone. For instance, many open-source projects have their own Discord server and I’ve found it useful for asking quick questions about software I’m learning to use and troubleshooting issues. In my case, those casual conversations have also led to collaboration. I believe it’d be wasted potential if there wasn’t a Discord server for biomechanics as well.

ISBWeb already has links to Biomch-L, Facebook, and Twitter on their website, so I could easily see the ISB Executive Council setting up a Discord server and adding it to those links to direct people to it. If there isn’t a biomechanics Discord server up already (please let me know if there is), I’m proposing they set one up. Alternatively, if people are interested but the ISB Executive Council doesn’t want to handle the server themselves, I’d be willing to set it up with some colleagues. I'm considering contacting the ISB Executive Council about this proposal, but I wanted to discuss the subject with the community first.

Thoughts?